Where are the instructions?
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:24 pm
by dboeshaar
I’m a new Sonex Model B builder.
I built 90% of a Van’s RV-9A and with the Van’s kits, you get instructions and plans.
With Sonex, you get plans.
For the tail, I see many YouTube videos, and I bought the HomeBuiltHelp videos (Yes, I know they are on YouTube but I want to support the company)
But what next?
Do I just start with page one of the plans, and move forward?
I do see tips and tricks on YouTube but I’m pretty skilled so far. And I see Bryan Cotton has done an EXCELLENT job documenting his build. Thanks Bryan!
So, just follow the plans in order and keep Bryan as my best Sonex Buddy?
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:30 am
by dbdevkc
If you have the complete set of plans, look for “Drawing System Description”. For my legacy Waiex, that is WIX-B02. Also if you have the complete set, look for the Drawing Tree. In my set that is WIX-B03. That shows all of the drawings with their numbers and titles, with the build sequence.
Essentially, you start from the bottom up. So for the tail, start with the highest tail number sheet and work your way up to #1.
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:02 am
by MichaelFarley56
Welcome to the Sonex world David! As other have said, the assembly sequence of the Sonex is a little different and the plans are all we get. Once you get used to it though, it makes sense and assembly is logical.
Think of it this way. If you start at the “bottom” of the assmebly tree “branches”, you will build or gather the smallest sub assembly parts and prep them for the next step. Once the parts are made or gathered, go to the next box “up” and you will take parts to fabricate a sub assembly. Remember that a lot of the parts have mirrored twins for left/right sides.
Once the sub assembly is done, go to the next box and you will take the parts you’ve been working on and make a bigger part. This goes on and on until the entire sub assembly is completed.
I don’t have specific page numbers to reference, but it’s something like this:
[completed rudder]
|
[skinning rudder]
|
[rudder skeleton riveting]
|
[rudder skeleton ribs]
See how you start at the bottom and work your way up? Does this make any sense at all?
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:22 am
by Bryan Cotton
Thanks David! I tried to reply yesterday but the forum was dead. Sonex has an instruction sheet on using the plans under the General category.
https://www.sonexaircraft.com/instructi … /#gen-info
Sonex plans are built back to front. When you get to page 1 you are done!
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:04 pm
by dboeshaar
Thanks everyone! I get it now.
I also printed off the Sonex Builder’s guide.
My fears guide my building. What if I goof with part X? For example, I was nervous on how to get the elevator perfectly straight. and then how to get the elevator and horizonal stabilizer together perfectly straight. So, I will now have these rules:
- Read the plans carefully.
- Follow the plans carefully
- When in doubt, pause. Go to this forum, go to web sites, go to YouTube.
- Review carefully and follow the plans!
Tail is almost done. Waiting on ship date for the rest of the stuff.
Sonex Tri-Gear
Rotax 912 IS
Review options for panel
So, is a paint scheme copyrighted? I live near Burbank airport and it would be a blast to taxi past the Southwest terminal with a Southwest paint scheme.
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:22 pm
by Bryan Cotton
I made a couple bad mistakes along the way. Still better than paralysis by analysis. If you screw up, get more parts and do it over. The psychological part is the hardest with respect to recovery.
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:55 pm
by mike.smith
As someone who scratch-built a Sonex, and is currently building an RV-7, I can say one thing about the Sonex plans. The best in the business! No dig on Vans, but their plans are hard to follow for the small details, and I find it odd that some critical information is buried in the “instructions” rather than shown plainly on the plans.
As others have stated, just go from high to low on the plans page numbers. There are instructions on some of the pages, when something needs to be explained in detail. If you have a question, reach out to Sonex or to this group.
Mine is a legacy Sonex, but my Kitlog site (and others) may be helpful:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/index.php … roject=698
Or Jeff Shultz’s: http://www.sonex604.com/
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:52 pm
by BradPayne
I’m also building a Sonex-B and this is my third airplane build. The plans leave a lot to be desired in comparison to the other builds. The best recomendations I have is:
-
Pull the staples on the plans and reorder the plans the reverse of how they are sent to you. I have never seen something as absurd as page 1 of the plans or directions being the finished product and the last page being step 1.
-
Use Sonex Support when you need. - The guys that answer the support emails from their website are fantastic.
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find a friend with an A model. You may need to reference their drawings once in a while since Sonex has removed dimensions on many of the parts in the B model plans.
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:33 pm
by mike.smith
As I get further into my RV-7 build, let me say again, the Vans instructions SUCK! I bitch about them on my Kitlog site almost every day. Other builders, further along in their RV-7 builds, tell me they only get worse, not better. I never had any trouble following the Sonex plans. They told me everything I needed to know. The RV drawings leave a lot to be desired, and the instructions just plain suck. The Sonex plans are excellent, by contrast. I built a legacy model, so I can’t speak to differences in the B-model plans.
Rant over…
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:46 am
by rk2436
The newer Vans plans RV 10-12-14 are much improved. Its almost a step by step process. I’ve built 3 different manufacturers kit planes and every style of plans are different. Not bad just different. But the Sonex plans definitely come in last as far as step by step type instructions.
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:18 am
by Kerry Fores
This is an age-old discussion. Sonex chose to use drawings to represent how its products are assembled. This began with the Sonex, which was intended to be scratch built. It has continued through all the models, but with less detail for the kit-built only models. You don’t need a drawing that lofts the wing ribs if your ribs come preformed.
Each kit company decides how to present their product. Each builder adapts or finds a design they like that provides assembly instruction in the format they are comfortable with. Comparing plans to manuals is like comparing cars to trains. They seem like they do the same things, but they serve different purposes. As someone who has lived most of my life in engineering departments as a detailer/design detailer/technical writer/illustrator I would say each has its place. Blueprints can convey more information with a few lines–and few lines of text–than paragraphs of text in a manual can. If, however, you need to be told every time that a pilot hole is drilled with a #40 bit and that the final hole must be duburred, then you may not like using blueprints where the “how” is generally left unsaid.
This ongoing criticism that the plans are “backwards” is silly because the plans are designed to be used one page at a time, climbing each branch of the Drawing Tree. Or climbing multiple paths at once. I’ve told builders a million times, "Use one page at a time following the flow of the Drawing Tree. Do everything on one page, nothing more and nothing less, and then move on to the next drawing. If the plans being “backwards” is an issue, find plans that match your sense of what’s right and build that airplane, but don’t fill other people with doubts about building a design they’ve fallen in love with. When you decide to commit $40k and years of spare time to building a flying machine does it matter where in the stack a drawing is? Has a residential electrician every struggled to wire a house because the electric plan was in front of the interior elevations in a set of house plans? Lord, I hope not.
The day will come when builders will criticize kit planes that don’t have a step-by-step video for their construction. Then they’ll get stuck because the factory-applied Protex on the flap skin in the video is clear, but the part they received has white Protex. Or no Protex. “I think I’ve been sent the wrong part.” Trust me, that happens.
Kerry Fores
Scratchbuilder
Sonex s/n 009, “Metal Illness”
AirVenture 2006 Plans Built Champion
Sonex Tech Support Manager
Kitplanes Magazine Contributing Editor
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:23 pm
by Area 51%
BradPayne wrote:1) Pull the staples on the plans and reorder the plans the reverse of how they are sent to you. I have never seen something as absurd as page 1 of the plans or directions being the finished product and the last page being step 1.
I guess I had the advantage of a Waiex being my first build. The plans, their layout, and order all made perfect sense after a short examination. It didn’t hurt I attended one of the last seminars that Sonex held.
I’m sure those of you who find the Sonex plans awkward have never started at the back of an aviation magazine and paged your way to the front.
You don’t know what you’re missing.
Wetting the left index finger to get a grip on my second Waiex build here @Area 51%
Re: Where are the instructions?
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:52 pm
by dboeshaar
Well! My kit is here, and fully inventoried. I’m amazed at the quality of packing and shipment of the entire airframe kit. I do have some back-order items, but all is here in the shipping invoice and no parts were damaged in shipping.
Thank you Sonex!
I’d also like to thank you all for your feedback on the question of a builder’s manual. I’m more and more understanding the process I’m about to go through. Here are my 10 tips for the beginner builder:
- Organize the inventory. There are LOTS of small parts.
- Start at the bottom of the assembly tree.
- Pick a page and do the entire page before moving on.
- Do not pick a page with a page below it until the entire sub-page is completed.
- Mark the page as completed in the tree and move either vertically or horizontally as required.
- Do NOT drive a single rivet until you have absolutely have to.
- SonexBuilders.Net, Sonex tech support and You-Tube are your best friends. (But note that there can be bad advice in Youtube as well. Use care. The factory is the final authority.)
- Follow the plans. There are aerospace engineers out there that can deviate from the plans. That is not me. I’m the New Guy!
- Total build time does not include “head scratching time”, but that is just as important.
- Don’t be afraid. If you screw up, order another part and move on. We all do this.
Thanks everyone!
Gung Ho!
(Gung = To work, Ho= in harmony)
Dkb