Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:54 pm
by Flynic3
Good Afternoon,
I am curious what your thoughts are on what would be the best choice for my build project. I fell in love with the Waiex the first time I saw it and would love to go with one for my build project. That being said, I have read about some inherent issues with the V tail design. I would prefer to go with the best option for a safe and stable aircraft over just looks. I would love to go with the Waiex based on looks alone however if the V tail is going to cause stability issues than I will start to second guess that choice. It is hard not to want the Waiex due to its tarmac appeal and feel it is just a gorgeous looking aircraft. I am just wondering why there are not more of them being built compared with the Sonex! I am quite torn on the subject and wanted your advice! Are the Waiex V tail issues that profound that it would be a better choice going with the Sonex? I have heard that they tend to drift or float during cruise… I also know that the V-Tail of the Waiex is heavier which can cause slight stability issues if you have an aft CG loading. I do plan on going with either the AeroVee turbo or 4 Gen Jabiru 3300, so I am hoping the heavier weight of these aircraft engines will resolve this aspect of things. Could you provide any other insight or wisdom on the differences between the two aircraft? I would love to hear your opinion on this subject and look forward to learning more about the Sonex and Waiex in the process…
Thank you in advance for your Opinion and Thoughts on this topic!
~Nic
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:48 pm
by Bryan Cotton
The question is simple: are you cool enough for a Waiex? Regarding Beechcraft lore, it is not a Beechcraft.
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:23 pm
by Flynic3
Bryan Cotton wrote:The question is simple: are you cool enough for a Waiex? Regarding Beechcraft lore, it is not a Beechcraft.
I think I could handle the cool factor of the Waiex… lol! Everything from Sonex says there is no difference however I remember reading a few things about differences in the stability of the Sonex and Waiex. It may have been on a different forum however I was curious, and figured I would ask. I am just trying to finalize the plans of my build project. I would prefer the Waiex but just wanted to make sure that will be the best choice. I am not trying to compare the Waiex and Bonanza, but based on how I asked about the V-Tail design.. I can see why you would think that. I am more curious about the stability differences between the Sonex and Waiex. I just don’t want to choose a Waiex based on looks and then come to regret the decision. I don’t see why more of them have not been built compared with the Sonex. I greatly appreciate the feedback Bryan, and I am hoping the differences I read about were just an online exegeration. I am looking forward to getting started on this build project and wanted to iron out the final details. I figured I might as well ask as many questions as I can before throwing down my money on a kit. Since I plan on purchasing the tail kit first, I figured it would be a good idea to figure out exactly what tail design I wanted first. Thanks again for the feedback and I look forward to all of your opinions and insight.
Cheers!
Nic
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:39 pm
by sonex1374
You’ll hear this comment repeatedly from Waiex pilots (or Sonex pilots that have time in a Waiex): “The Waiex flies exactly like a Sonex.” Whatever sins haunt other V-tail designs, they’re absent in this design.
Having said that, John Monnett has a thing for V tail designs. However, when he was preparing to introduce the Sonex family of airplanes to the market, he decided to lead off with the conventional tail design. I think he felt that a conventional configuration would be better received. Delaying the Waiex several years undoubtedly slowed the pace of Waiex builds, but it was probably the smart business decision. Just look at how many times he’s had to answer the question of whether the Waiex wiggles like a Bonanza!
I’ve flow them both, and I’ll leave you with my impressions. The Waiex flies just like a Sonex. Build the one that appeals to you in a totally frivolous and irrational way… you can’t go wrong with either choice!
Jeff
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:53 pm
by MichaelFarley56
Jeff has pretty much nailed it here. They fly almost identically. I’ve flown both and in cruise you can hardly tell any difference at all.
Remember, the fuselage itself has square sides with a rounded top and while I can’t tell you for sure, it seems the fuselage itself does seem to lead towards directional stability. Whatever the reason, there is no “tail waggle” some people claim that V35 Bonanza’s have. The airplane tracks very straight without any issues. Take a look at all the Youtube videos of Waiex’s flying around and you won’t see any “waggle” at all!
It does seem that Waiex’s tend to have slightly higher empty weights, possibly due to to the extra steel mixer assembly in the tailcone. When mine first flew it had an empty weight of 644 lbs, so you can build either model light! And yes you may have a slight aft c.g. issue if you use a Jabiru 2200 but the same applies if you’re in a Sonex. If you’re going to use an AeroVee or Jabiru 3300, you won’t have any issues.
In the interest of full disclosure, some Waiex pilots will say that crosswind capability is a little less as compared to the straight tail Sonex (remember, you’re landing at 40 mph so having a bigger rudder on a Sonex may help), but that’s a matter of opinion.
I will second Jeff’s opinion; you can’t go wrong either way! They’re both overbuilt, great airplanes that are a blast to fly!
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:10 pm
by kmacht
One other thing to consider is that the sonex plans (or at least they used to) contain all the details and measurements to scratch build every part. The waiex was designed as a kit from day 1 so it only has the dimensions needed to assemble the kit. You can’t scratch build a waiex or any replacement parts.
Keith
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:10 am
by builderflyer
If my memory is correct, the Sonex was first designed with a conventional tail to satisfy an Italian client. Had that not been the case, the first Sonex may very well have been a “Waiex”, given John’s liking to the Y tail appearance.
Art,Sonex taildragger #95,Jabiru 3300 #261
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:38 am
by jforster
Neither the Sonex-B or Waiex-B can be scratch-built, the plans are not set up that way. If you are interested in scratch building, the original legacy Sonex plans can still be purchased for that purpose.
Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:48 am
by caveman370
I agree with Mike. I have the conventional tail, but have flown John Gillis’s wayex also.
I think his is faster ( maybe the speed cowl)
Handling is identical to me
Mike
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:53 am
by N190YX
The straight tail versus the Vee tail actually is more of a personal choice, like Ford versus Chevy. I have owned a straight tail Bonanza (Debonair) for 38 years and I can’t tell any difference in handling characteristics when flying buddy’s Vee tail Bonanzas. But we should not compare the Bonanza tail configuration differences (or not) with the Sonex/Waiex because the Bonanza’s Vee tail has less tail surface, essentially the same tail surface size as only two of the straight tail version’s three tail surfaces, while the Waiex’s two tail surfaces are larger than each of the three individual tail surfaces of the Sonex. Which should provide essentially the same elevator and rudder authority. Another consideration when deciding between building a Sonex or a Waiex is the slightly higher cost of the Waiex. I went with the Waiex because I think the Vee tail is really cool! And having Vee tail envy owning a straight tail Bonanza (Debonair). (I’m building the Waiex because I want to build (a really cool airplane), not because I need another airplane!)
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:20 am
by Sonerai13
Ok, I’ll weigh in here, for what it’s worth. I have many hours in all the factory airplanes, plus a number of hours in various customer airplanes. In my experience, there is NO measurable performance or difference between the Waiex and the Sonex. You really can’t tell which one you’re flying unless you look out and see what tail is back there! Now, having said that, there are always small differences between one individual airplane and another. These airplanes are all unique unto themselves, so there will always be small differences that may or may not be noticeable.
As for crosswinds, I can say from experience that the factory Waiex could handle any crosswind that the Sonex could. I landed that airplane in a howling direct crosswind that was more than 20 knots and it handled it fine. Yes, it was work, but it did it. Wouldn’t want to do it on every flight, but it could be done. The straight-tail airplanes handle crosswinds very well indeed. I’d say that either airplane will handle winds that most pilots would be uncomfortable with.
So, here comes my personal opinion on the subject. If I were making the choice, it would be a straight tail. It’s lighter, it’s easier to build, and it’s easier to move around by hand on the ground as well. You just grab the leading edges of the horizontal stabilizer, pick up the tail, and move the plane where you want. That’s not as easy to do on the Waiex. For me, the weight would be the biggest deal, but I’m a bit of a weight “nazi” (to use a non-PC term).
One small item to nit-pick - the Waiex is a Y tail, not a V tail. It has a small conventional rudder under the “V”, which makes it a Y.
Remember, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it!! 
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:45 pm
by LarryEWaiex121
I don’t always bite on these types of personal observations but, here goes.
About 609 hours in with my Waiex, I agree on 95% of whats been said. My 5% divergence here is in a pure crosswind landing. Straight tail Vs. Waiex tail.
I honestly feel the biggest difference is going to be in the level of skill in the guy operating the controls. All things being equal, I’d give a tilt of the hat towards the conventional tailed plane.
In the conventional tailed plane, you have independent rudder and elevator control, which we’re all familiar with.
In the Waiex when your trying to “plant” the tail wheel firmly on the ground; such as in a crosswind take off or landing. You pull the stick back and both ruddervators go up. Add right peddle and the left one goes up and you’d think the right would go down by the same amount right? Wrong.
The right one barely goes down a little from full up. Remember were already full up trying to plant the tail?
So the matter becomes more of what do you want? Primarily elevator control or left, right control? The reality is always somewhere in the middle.
So its a compromise you don’t have with the conventional tail. With conventional controls you can use as much or little as you want. With the Y tail you give up a bit of “rudder” control with extremes of elevator control.
Now before one screams,but it had a sub rudder. Well that helps. It’s actually quite effective at cruise speed in damping yaw. At low speed, not so much.
Obviously, just my opinion.
Would I still build one over the other? Yes. I like the looks of the Waiex in a tail dragger configuration better then the conventional tail. Perceived differences or not.
Larry
Waiex 121YX, Camit 3300, Skyview
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:06 pm
by fastj22
caveman370 wrote:I agree with Mike. I have the conventional tail, but have flown John Gillis’s wayex also.
I think his is faster ( maybe the speed cowl)
Handling is identical to meMike
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You were definitely cooler flying my plane and I was less cool flying your’s. When Mike and I cross country together, men want to be like me, women want to be with me. They will still talk to Mike.
To add something useful… My waiex is more tail heavy than Mike’s. Which means I have less ability to put things behind the seat and stay in a comfortable CG range.
I took Mike’s Sonex through the aerobatic series during Phase 1, spins, loops, rolls, stalls… No significant differences than my Waiex. When people say both planes are nearly identical in handling, they ain’t lying.
Re: Sonex VS Waiex!
Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:01 pm
by Flynic3
Good Evening,
Thank you all very much for your input on this Subject! I greatly appreciate it…
Looks like I will be going wih a Waiex and plan on ordering the tail kit this summer after OshKosh.
I am looking forward to this build and joining the Sonex family. Thanks again for all the wonderful comments and opinions!
Cheers!
Nic