Prince prop question
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:56 pm
by Johns
Anyone with a force one hub go from a wood Sensenich wood prop to a carbon p-tip Prince prop. Would this be a straight forward swap or are there complications?
John
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:28 pm
by SonexEZ
Johns wrote:Anyone with a force one hub go from a wood Sensenich wood prop to a carbon p-tip Prince prop. Would this be a straight forward swap or are there complications?
John
I had a prince P tip it went back 3 x for repairs , the 3rd time i was told it cant be repaired and to get a new prop , I ordered a sensenich and it works fine , Good luck if you choose to go to prince
Prince prop question
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:13 pm
by Sonex1517
I love my Prince P tip, and have found Lonnie Prince to be a great guy to deal with.
My prop was easy to install, used the hardware supplied with my AeroVee and some AN bolts.
Can’t say I have experience with other props or switching them, but I love the propeller I bought.
Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Chicagoland
N1517S
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:22 pm
by SonexEZ
Sonex1517 wrote:I love my Prince P tip, and have found Lonnie Prince to be a great guy to deal with.
My prop was easy to install, used the hardware supplied with my AeroVee and some AN bolts.
Can’t say I have experience with other props or switching them, but I love the propeller I bought.
Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Chicagoland
N1517S
wait till it goes bad and you will see how good he is helping !!
Prince prop question
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:39 pm
by Sonex1517
SonexEZ wrote:
Sonex1517 wrote:I love my Prince P tip, and have found Lonnie Prince to be a great guy to deal with.
My prop was easy to install, used the hardware supplied with my AeroVee and some AN bolts.
Can’t say I have experience with other props or switching them, but I love the propeller I bought.
Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Chicagoland
N1517Swait till it goes bad and you will see how good he is helping !!
Hmmm. Actually when the first one didn’t meet expectations, he replaced it. For free. Even shipped it to me.
I stand by my recommendation. Great guy, great product, fantastic customer service.
Sorry for hijacking the original thread…
Robbie Culver
Sonex 1517
Chicagoland
N1517S
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:07 pm
by MichaelFarley56
Let’s not get off topic here guys. Personal feelings of bitterness doesn’t help John.
John, if I were to guess I’d say it’s a direct replacement but your best answer would come from Lonnie himself. Give him a call and ask; he’s built thousands of props and can answer your question. I’m sure that, even if a small modification would be needed, he could easily accommodate it.
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:16 pm
by rizzz
Johns wrote:Anyone with a force one hub go from a wood Sensenich wood prop to a carbon p-tip Prince prop. Would this be a straight forward swap or are there complications?
John
I have a prince P-Tip 54x48 on my 2400cc VW powered Sonex, and I have the Force One Prop hub.
Just tell Lonnie Prince what you have and he’ll make it accordingly.
This is my first prop so I have no experience with the Sensenich.
However, my hangar buddies have the Sensenich props on their Sonex’s, it looks like it would be just a straight swap apart from the bolts, the Sensenich props appear to be much thicker. The prince prop will require shorter bolts.
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:30 am
by WaiexN143NM
Hi all,
Just wanted two throw my 2 cents in to this thread. Thanks Mike F for interceding, although when u referred to John, I think you really wanted to refer to sonexez (guy). John was the original poster. Sonexez we’ved all posted and helped you out on the used sonex you bought, glad to see you’re getting things sorted out and flying, the prop you had (Prince) not sure of the history and use behind this prop. But please cut Lonnie Prince some slack. He is a top notch guy. And a great supporter of the sonex airplane community. We had a small problem with our carbon p-tip prop, he sent us a new one the next day, we used the box to send the old one back. Very pleasant and easy to deal with. Sorry you were not pleased but sending the prop back 3 times? At some point he will need to start charging for his time to repair it.
I’ve never been to crossville, hopefully someday, but doesn’t Lonnie come and give a propeller seminar? And donate a new prop as a raffle prize? Gee many others have posted about good experience with Lonnie. Sorry you don’t feel the same. We’ve all had experiences with different aviation sources, usually a civil call to straighten things out works. Only once a civil call resulted in hostility back.
Thanks Mike F. For letting me rant, abit slightly off topic.
WaiexN143NM
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:33 am
by peter anson
My Prince prop developed a fault. Can’t think how it happened. Do you think Lonnie would cover warranty?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t9yyb55xjvsvs1z/20150205_163045.jpg?dl=0
Peter
Sonex 894
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:08 am
by Darick
Well I wouldn’t have called that a fault. Unless you are talking about the prop version of the San Andreas fault.
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:52 am
by Onex107
I posted this many moons ago, but it may be worth reading again. It doesn’t prove anything except that the Prince needed 150 more rpm to generate the same thrust under load. It’s obviously flexing and changing pitch. Unless you really want a carbon fiber covered prop, in this simple test I didn’t see the difference in performance for the difference in price.
For your information. I’m not sure what this test means but here are the results. A Sonex friend added a turbo to his Aerovee and let me try the Prince P Tip he removed. My Aerovee is the standard, AeroInjector version that I have flown 65 hours with a Sensenich 54 X 44 wood prop. His Prince is also a 54 X 44 carbon fiber covered, wood base prop.
I warmed up my engine and did a wot run up. As usual it ran up to 2880/2900 rpm and held there. I removed the Sensenich and installed the Prince and did another run up. The engine accelerated rapidly to 3050 and held. I flew with this prop and at the beginning of takeoff it hit 3000 immediately and during climb out I had to reduce the throttle to keep the rpm under 3100. I don’t think I got off the ground any sooner nor climbed any faster. The Sensenich turns 2900 at the beginning of take off and accelerates to 3000 wot during climb out at 90 mph and 500 ft/min.
I’m told the Prince is designed to flex to a lower pitch under load and resume 44 pitch at cruise. It definitely reduces under load but I flew some straight and level and at 3000 rpm my air speed/ground speed was 120 mph, the same as the Sensenich. This was a crude test but I didn’t see enough difference between the two props to support the higher rpm during take off.
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:13 pm
by N111YX
One more important fact when debating the Sensenich vs. Prince decision is the durability of the finish. I liked my original Sensenich also but there is no comparison in terms of leading edge erosion of the paint/finish. The Prince wins hands down, especially if one encounters rain.
Re: Prince prop question
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:01 pm
by gammaxy
Onex107 wrote:I flew with this prop and at the beginning of takeoff it hit 3000 immediately and during climb out I had to reduce the throttle to keep the rpm under 3100.
No reason to reduce throttle to keep it under 3100–you just lose any benefit you might have gained by using a superior propeller. At 3100 rpm turning 100rpm more than you typically do, you would be generating an extra 2.5 hp according to Sonex’s dyno chart. I estimate this is probably good for 50-75 extra fpm which might be hard to notice without careful measurement. If you’d allowed it to turn to whatever RPM it wanted to while maintaining your typical climb speed, it might have been more noticeable.
I keep thinking I need to rent a high speed camera to figure out just how much this propeller flexes and how it compares to Sensenich.