Oshkosh Incident
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:41 pm
by johnhuebbe
Anyone have news about the accident? Only info is “AIRCRAFT LANDED GEAR UP”
Hope whoever was flying is ok and that the plane isn’t damaged too bad.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:11 pm
by mike20sm
http://www.hngnews.com/sun_prairie_star/article_fe4450d0-7738-11e5-b55a-732df53c8372.html
First I’ve heard of it. Are you referring to this article?
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:21 pm
by johnhuebbe
Date: 20-OCT-15
Time: 16:49:00Z
Regis#: N241SJ
Aircraft Make:
Aircraft Model: SONEX
Event Type: Incident
Highest Injury: None
Aircraft Missing:
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: OSHKOSH
State: Wisconsin
Country:
DESCRIPTION
Description: AIRCRAFT LANDED GEAR UP, OSHKOSH, WI
http://www.asias.faa.gov/pls/apex/f?p=1 … OSH,N241SJ
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:43 pm
by mike20sm
Oh, that’s the new Subsonex with the retracts.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:43 pm
by rizzz
That explains why they’ve taken the article about John Monnett flying SubSonex prototype #2 for the first time off their website a few days ago.
I was wondering why they did that.
Good to hear nobody got hurt, at least that proves you can land it gear up and walk away.
Hopefully the damage is minor.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:48 pm
by John Monnett
First… it was not an accident! It was an " incident" caused by me having my head up my ass! On the second test flight on the Shark I was concentrating on an airspeed calibration error during landing and just forgot to lower the gear. Nice smooth landing ( most of you wish you could do that). Very minor damage to the belly skin under the wing and, of course, my HUGE ego. The county airport crew hand lifted the jet up high enough to put the gear down, I thanked them and I taxied back to Sonex. It is an awesome airplane! END OF STORY! 
John
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:06 pm
by sonex1649
We all have a bad day. We all know its a great plane if I had the money right now I would own one. At least your safe John and it will live to fly another day.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:56 pm
by mike.smith
sonex1649 wrote:We all have a bad day. We all know its a great plane if I had the money right now I would own one. At least your safe John and it will live to fly another day.
Here, here! Glad you’re safe, John! Will you offer that airframe to one of us at a discount
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:20 am
by Bulldog
John Monnett wrote:It is an awesome airplane! END OF STORY!
I agree 100%! Glad you’re ok!
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:12 pm
by andrewp
It may not have been an intended test, but that is super awesome test data nonetheless. If you can land it on its belly, have everything hold together, lift it up, put the gear down and TAXI IT BACK. Holy cow. The is a huge vote for the airplane. I would class it as a feature.
Actually, having some knowledge of the legend of John Monnett, I am sure it was accidental. Or was it? (dramatic music). Fess up John, you just wanted to see what it would do, didn’t you
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:17 pm
by Bryan Cotton
When I build mine I am putting roller blade wheels on the bottom.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:48 pm
by DCASonex
John,
Now that the cat is out of the bag, time to make lemonade out of that lemon and add the incident to your web site as additional safety testing accomplished. Can also list in SubSonex features: No prop or engine damage when landing gear up. 
David A.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:03 pm
by jjbardell
I want those retracts so I can fit them on my Sonex. A tri-gear retract Sonex with 30 gal wing tanks…the ultimate ride. 
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:37 pm
by rizzz
John Monnett wrote:…
of course, my HUGE ego.
Wouldn’t worry about it too much, here’s what Wikipedia has to say about this topic:
…
There are two types of pilots: Those that have landed gear up, and those that will.
…
Full article can be found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belly_landing
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:47 am
by radfordc
What does the FAA do when someone who lands gear up?
My brother once ran a plane dry and had to land on a highway. He caught hell from the Feds for a while.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:00 pm
by MichaelFarley56
I have a bad feeling that the answer to your question Charlie would depend on which FAA investigator was assigned. As John pointed out, per the FAR’s (NTSB 830) a gear up landing would be an incident so no immediate notification would be required. That being said, if a runway was closed down I’m sure there will be written reports filed for the airport authority. Hopefully the FSDO wouldn’t really have a part in this.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 am
by John Monnett
An incident is only a big deal if we make it one ( including those who are not involved but need to know every little detail to satisfy their “interest”). At a controlled field when a runway is shut down for even a short period usually a report is filed and the FAA gets involved to some extent. In this recent incident the tower notified the FAA, the FAA called me and set up a visit at our facility. The inspectors came and were amazed at how little damage was on the belly of the jet. I discussed the new very positive gear warning system and they went away to complete their paperwork.
Over my many years of test flying new designs I have been involved in many “incidents” from flat tires to actual airframe damage for multitudes of reasons ( I could write a book). Some involved the FAA and some not. All have been learning experiences and lead to improvements in all over safety of those designs. This event was one of those learning experiences and turned out as I have stated, to be no big deal.
Some day, hopefully in the not to distant future, we will know what happened with Jeremy… nobody wants to know more than me! I am sure, since I rarely post to lists, that someone will have to have the…dumb last word. Have at it.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:16 pm
by fastj22
Ouch,
John’s not the only one to land a Subsonex on its belly.
http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20 … 29521/-1/s
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:48 pm
by mike.smith
fastj22 wrote:Ouch,
John’s not the only one to land a Subsonex on its belly.
That’s the same first customer-built SubSonex featured on the Sonex web page. Bummer. I hope it’s repairable. Glad everyone is safe.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:36 am
by Fastcapy
-Removed-
Re: Oshkosh incident
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:10 am
by Sonerai13
Fastcapy wrote:You know 2 gallons and 80 gallons are pretty close so I can see how they could make that mistake…SMH
Not to mention the fact that the airplane doesn’t even hold 80 gallons! Gotta love the news reporters!
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:15 am
by Gripdana
2 gallons is not as sensational as 80.
Re: Oshkosh accident
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:44 am
by fastj22
Gripdana wrote:2 gallons is not as sensational as 80.
The plane is so small, I bet the fuel spill looked bigger.
Re: Oshkosh INCIDENT
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:15 am
by markschaible
Hello SonexBuilders.net,
First, to the moderators: in all fairness, can you please change the title of this thread from “accident” to “incident” per FAA definition?
We heard from Redge yesterday and he is just fine. Very minor damage, and the cause of the gear-up was the same as John’s. The square-bottom of the SubSonex fuselage makes a gear-up very uneventful, which is great! We were able to replace a couple belly skins and repair the inboard flaps on “Sharky” in only a day’s work.
Regarding the fuel spill, the SubSonex has a fuel drain valve on the belly, but it is not at the low-point of the fuselage that would have directly contacted the runway and it is not proud of the belly skin surface. I have no direct information from Redge on this aspect, but either a piece of debris, like an antenna, depressed the valve, or (perhaps more likely) the airport workers depressed the valve when lifting the aircraft.
Since the Oshkosh gear-up, John has been busy devising a very simple gear warning system – you know what they say about the mother of invention… The LED warning light system uses an interlock between the flap handle and gear indicator. If flaps are extended with the gear-up, bright multi-color LED’s at the top of the instrument panel will flash until you extend the gear. We’ll have all of the electronic components and installation instructions for that system included in an update package to be sent to SubSonex customers next week. MGL Avionics is also working on a firmware update for the iEFIS Explorer instrument to allow a gear warning indication to show-up on the iEFIS display using a single-wire input from the gear warning system electronics package we are providing. Pre-programmed SubSonex checklists will also be available for the iEFIS Explorer avionics package soon.
Gear Warn LED Lights (Upper Left and Right corners of panel) flash and change colors, and MGL iEFIS screen Gear Warn Indication (Flaps DOWN, Gear UP):
SubSonex_Gear_Warn_System_3095 2.jpg (182.29 KiB) Viewed 7572 times
Gear Warn Switch Senses Flap Position (Zero Flaps Shown Here):
SubSonex_Gear_Warn_System_6308.jpg (205.04 KiB) Viewed 7572 times
Have a great weekend everyone, and fly safe!
Regards,
-Mark
Mark Schaible
General Manager
Sonex Aircraft, LLC
phone: 920-231-8297
fax: 920-426-8333
http://www.SonexAircraft.com
http://www.AeroConversions.com
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Re: Oshkosh Incident
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:26 pm
by vwglenn
As someone who’s actually gone through the FAA’s Basic Accident Investigation course, I can say whether it’s classified as an accident or incident can certainly be subject to interpretation and circumstances.
An incident: “an occurrence involving one or more aircraft in which a hazard or a potential hazard to safety is involved but not classified as an accident due to the degree of injury and/or extent of damage.”
They used an example in the course of a couple similar aircraft which both had a nose gear collapse. One was classified and an “accident” and the other an “incident” even though the events appeared identical on the surface. The difference was in the nature of the failure. One broke in such a way that it damaged part of the fuselage internally where it mounted and required extensive repair. The other just fell on the nose and did minor skin damage.
Another determining factor is “serious injury”. Any “incident” becomes an “accident” when there is a “serious injury.” In our gear collapse scenario, if the nose gear on the “incident” aircraft collapses and a passenger or crew member has a spinal injury as a result, the “incident” becomes an “accident” regardless of the damage to an aircraft. But what determines a “serious injury”? Broken finger? Concussion? This is where things can get a little confusing and, since every injury is different, subject to interpretation.
Another thing… It’s been my experience that the news is ALWAYS wrong or partially wrong on every single story to which I’ve been witness. So be extremely careful when you point at news stories. You’re probably perpetuating incorrect or misleading information.
I agree that John’s adventure barely qualifies as an incident. If it happened at some remote uncontrolled airstrip it likely wouldn’t be known by anyone other than the operator and the crew that put it back on the wheels.