Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:05 pm
by WaiexN143NM
Hi all,
The electric flap unit we are using we copied from john gillis. Its a http://www.firegelliauto.com unit,
FA-05-12-3. 12 VDC 150 lbs 3" stroke. $129.99 sq unit by about 15 in long. Linear actuator. We got a swicth from the local electronics store, DPDT six blade type tabs on back. Spring loaded up or down. Before to go to 30 * flap w manuel handle took a gorilla arm. Love it ! Infinite setting from 0-30 degrees. We marked the left aileron inboard rib with a black sharpie , lines for 10,20, and 30 degrees. Easy to wire and hook up. Our brake set up is the two sonex hyd. Master cyl. In center on floorboard just ahead of spar mounted on alum angle for flex strength , two arms and knobs facing inward. So we have diff braking, works well. Brake lines straight ahead thru firewall to parking brake valve, then lines down gear legs. Easy to see and service master cylinders. Toe brakes would be ideal, but harder to install , unless done initially, but harder to get to to service.
Anyone else have different set up from stock? Flaps or brakes. Please share your set up.
WaiexN143NM
Michael
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:59 pm
by GordonTurner
Any chance to get a picture or two of your brake setup?
Gordon
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:17 pm
by jjbardell
I’d like to see pics of your flap setup. Motor location, mounting brackets, etc.
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:20 am
by DCASonex
In have been using electric flaps for about 300+ hours. Simple installation with compact 6" stroke linear actuator with built in limit switches, about $100.
Also simple but strong toe brakes that use low cost Heyco cylinders.
May find drawings and photos on Sonex foundation site, if not e-mail me.
David A. Sonex TD 1327
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:04 pm
by ldmill
I have the same flap setup for over a year now that Michael has and I love it. Pretty easy conversion. For brakes, I’ve got the Matco conversion with bicycle type handle on my stick and parking brake mounted between my knees on the spar tunnel. Have had for about 4 years now, fantastic units. Moving to toe brakes this year I think though.
Lorin
Waiex N81YX
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:17 pm
by ScottM-Sonex1629
Would really like to see some installed photos of the electric flap conversion!
If unable to post to the forum (pics) feel free to email to me and I will copy to my Photobucket and post here. This would be a great article for the SBPF quarterly newsletter!
scott7594 at gmail dot com
Replace the at and dot with the symbols…no spaces.
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:02 pm
by inventor
DCASonex wrote:In have been using electric flaps for about 300+ hours. Simple installation with compact 6" stroke linear actuator with built in limit switches, about $100.
Also simple but strong toe brakes that use low cost Heyco cylinders.
May find drawings and photos on Sonex foundation site, if not e-mail me.
David A. Sonex TD 1327
Where did you get yours and what is the part number?
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:40 pm
by WaiexN143NM
Hi all,
If anyone would like to see some texted cell pics of my brakes and flaps please pm me. (Send me your cell #)Ive sent a few people the pics. Please feel free to share. Scott, did you get the pics? Can u upload them to this site? Im always on my ipad, no full computer here so,thanks for the patience with me. Love the electric flaps, my father really likes them.
WaiexN143NM
Michael
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:34 pm
by ScottM-Sonex1629
Michael and Lorin both sent me photos…my apologies for not posting them. Been super busy at work (as always), with Our Boy Scout Troop and just started my condition inspection. Let me save them off my iPad to photobucket and post them tonight.
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:39 pm
by ScottM-Sonex1629
Some of the pictures that were sent…
Michael’s set-up:
Lorin’s flap drive is similar but mounted higher up along the fuselage:
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:10 am
by jowens
Here is my adoption of John Gillis’ electric flap installation. Similar to what has been posted.
Bolting the parts in on completed sonex would be challenging. John did- quite an amazing feat! I’d be happy to email larger pictures to anyone interested. I also have a version of the arm made out of cheap steel I would be willing to lend out as a template.
parts
1Setup-small.jpg (31.68 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Actuator
Actuator-small.jpg (27.58 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Version 1 of arm, similar to Johns I didn’t like how it interfered with the rudder cable
arm version1-small.jpg (23.21 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Front pivot
Front pivot and brace-small.jpg (27.85 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Front pivot and brace installed
FrontPivot brace installed-small.jpg (38.96 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:16 am
by jowens
Second set of pictures.
front pivot installed view 1
FrontPivot installed1-small.jpg (42.43 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Front pivot view 2
FrontPivot installed2-small.jpg (39.99 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Install complete
Install complete-small.jpg (38.17 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Pivot fuselage attachment
Pivot brace screws-small.jpg (29.42 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:17 am
by jowens
The plans
The plans on 1/4" graph paper
Plans-small.jpg (42.8 KiB) Viewed 5663 times
The amazing flap stops!
Flap stops-small.jpg (36.18 KiB) Viewed 5663 times
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:50 am
by Bryan Cotton
Jim,
Very nice. I had considered cutting off the left hand drive horn to save weight as I have center controls, but maybe I’ll hold off.
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:48 am
by WaiexN143NM
Hi brett,
Heres the post.
WaiexN143NM
Michael
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:37 pm
by jjbardell
I bought a new motor to install electric flaps but have decided to go another direction. Still in the box. Pm if anyone is interested at my cost - 10%.
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:15 am
by Ron
Hi folks
I only joined this forum today and I receive my Sonex tomorrow. It is a taildragger with a Jabiru 3300 and 100 hours on the clock. I live in New South Wales, Australia.
Pardon my newly acquired ignorance of the plane, but what are you referring to as a “Legacy” Sonex
I am lookjng to putting electric flaps on mine. It is the model described above and I am wondering if the 12 VDC 150 lbs 3" stroke linear actuator as described by WaiexN143NM in his post of February 2017 would be the same for mine.
Thanking you in anticipation of your answer(s).
Cheers
Ron
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:20 am
by sonex1566
Hi Ron,
Lesson 1…Legacy models are the original design, where the nose becomes narrower from the pilot’s shoulders forwards. They’re usually powered by either VW or Jabiru engines. The newer ‘B’ models fuselages are parallel from the cockpit forward and can be powered by almost anything. Mine is a legacy Sonex with dual joysticks so that I can pretend to be a Spitfire pilot. As for the electric flaps…try it first. I personally like the KISS principle myself.
However, if you let the speed build up too high the amount of muscle required for full flap is pretty high. Enjoy your new toy!
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:02 am
by GraemeSmith
sonex1566 wrote:…so that I can pretend to be a Spitfire pilot…
Too funny - that was actually a selling point for me. Throttle in left hand, stick in right, a “Malcolm” hood (well almost) and a left turning engine. That and flying a curved approach to land so you can see over the nose. Only thing missing - 90% of the horsepower…and the elliptical wingtips… 
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:33 pm
by GraemeSmith
To be serious for a moment about electric flaps. Why?
I hear and have experienced that pulling flaps 20 to 30 is almost impossible. But that’s not really true of you unload the wing or slow down enough.
I pull Flaps 10 below 80KIAS.
Flaps 20 about 70KIAS and
Flaps 30 below 55KIAS when it is quite possible. It also puts a lot less strain on the flaps. If you are slow enough and go Flaps 30 - the plane doesn’t balloon on you. It slows right down for touch down.
A motor and gearing to force them down on such a small plane seems counterproductive - putting unneeded strain on everything. As well as adding weight and complexity.
Indeed the attraction to me of the flap handle is the ability to get rid of all the flaps instantly - which really improves a short field touch down. The plane stops flying for sure and sticks.
I’m not saying I’m right - just have a different approach to the issue.
YMMV
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:37 am
by Ron
Hi Graeme
I just purchased this bird today.
You asked why electric flaps? Well, having no hands, but having had a licence for >40 years, I find it easier to operate (and reach).
Other than that, I can’t give a ‘satisfactory’ reason.
I’ll let you know when I am back in the air in the next couple of weeks.
Cheers
Ron
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:35 pm
by GraemeSmith
That’s a good reason!
Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:02 pm
by Carlos Trigo
Ron
I’ve done some “research” about putting electric flaps in a Sonex that doesn’t have them.
Well, B-model’s (except the XENOS) have electric flaps included in the kit, so you can only talk about adapting your flaps to electric operation in Legacy Sonex’s and Waiex’s.
The easiest way to do it is purchasing a linear actuator like this one
https://www.pololu.com/product
and figure out how to install it to replace the flaps handle.
There are several websites from other Sonex builders who did this before you, so you have to invent, just choose one and copy
Cheers
Carlos
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:04 pm
by Ron
Hi Jim
I just read your post and offer to send pics re: above. I would certainly appreciate this. My email address is ronald.eason27@gmail.com
Thanks
Ron
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:43 pm
by Rick524
Just want to thank Jim Owens for posting the pictures and info on the electric flap installation.
With the help of a very talented aircraft mechanic, we installed all the parts and pieces into
my Sonex. Test flight was last evening and what a pleasure it is, to push a button on the stick to
lower/raise the flaps! I used a Ray Allen POS12 sensor and have a flap position readout on the
Enigma. Its a bit of a job to install on a completed aircraft, but IMHO, well worth it.
Rick
Sonex 524
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:38 am
by inventor
I would like to see those pictures. Can you tell me where to find them?
Richard
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:21 am
by Rick524
Hi Richard, I was referring to the pictures Jim Owens posted earlier in this thread. Everything
you need to know is there.
Ric
Sonex 524
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:24 am
by inventor
Thanks, I found them.
Richard
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:43 pm
by jowens
I fabricated some toe brakes for my legacy sonex using aerovee disc brakes with Hegar master cylinders. I do not have a lathe so I turned the aluminum rod down on a drill press using a file. This design removes a lot of material from the pretty large aluminum L angle but I wanted to build it with no welding and no unnecessary seams.
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Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:00 pm
by WaiexN143NM
hi all, jim
looks good. what type brakes you using? the sonex aeroconversion hyd. brakes?
post some measurements of the parts when you get time.
bravo!
take care,
WaiexN143NM
Michael
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:36 pm
by dbdevkc
Jim,
I am also interested in your design for those toe brakes - if you can share measurements or plans. I am also trying to understand how you have them fastened/pivoting on the pedals.
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:02 pm
by WaiexN143NM
hi all, jim, kevin,
they look kevin to just go inside the bottom round tube, alum angles on back side of rudder sq tube.
question for jim, would it be better to run a full length bolt per rudder bar thru the bottom to capture the alum round tubes and angles?
and are the backside alum angle pieces long enough? longer woud give you more leverage . is there enough leverage on the heager master cylinders?
WaiexN143NM
Michael
Re: Electric flaps , brakes for legacy sonex
Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:30 pm
by jowens
I believe there is enough leverage. This is the plan of the original cylinder side. I have since cut off 9/16" so I don’t have to raise my heals to apply light brakes. I have about 140 flights in six months on the toe brakes.
20201005_212139.jpg (44.79 KiB) Viewed 1392 times
Thanks,