Dial a trim
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:57 pm
by Corby202
One thing I havnt figured out, perhaps you guy’s can help. With the Dial a Trim setup, do you still keep the “bungee rubber”.
Thanks
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:58 pm
by Corby202
I should have added, the bungee rubber shown on the plans to take the weight of the elevator.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:02 pm
by fastj22
No, you just have the two springs. One is static, the other is dynamic controlled by the DialATrim. Set it up to the instructions then adjust the bias based on your flight testing.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:44 pm
by kmacht
Anybody able to get the dial a trim to work for both solo and gross weight. If I set it up the rear spring for gross weight I have just enough nose down trim before running out of dial but when I fly it solo I run out of nose up dial when setting up to land. If I adjust the rear spring the other way for solo flight I’m good when setting up to land but have to hold alot of forward stick when I get to gross weight. I’m a bit dissapointed in the system as it seems there isn’t enough travel in the dial no matter where the rear spring is set.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:28 pm
by fastj22
kmacht wrote:Anybody able to get the dial a trim to work for both solo and gross weight. If I set it up the rear spring for gross weight I have just enough nose down trim before running out of dial but when I fly it solo I run out of nose up dial when setting up to land. If I adjust the rear spring the other way for solo flight I’m good when setting up to land but have to hold alot of forward stick when I get to gross weight. I’m a bit dissapointed in the system as it seems there isn’t enough travel in the dial no matter where the rear spring is set.
Nope, thats why I replaced mine with an electric trim system that will handle an infinite range. Same idea, a static spring and a dynamic. the dynamic is attached to a 12V motor spool via a cable that winds up or spools out based on a DPDT switch on my stick. Use a similar system for a wing leveler.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:39 am
by jjbardell
This is a good discussion, I am interested in hearing more opinions. I am about to start cutting in my panel and currently have the hardware for both the manual trim and the dial-a-trim. Based on this thread, I may go back to the original plans.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:46 pm
by LarryEWaiex121
I’m getting in on the discussion for a moment but coming from a different platform. With the Waiex, and aerodynamic trim tab is out of the question. No way to have a movable tab on two ruddervators. I rely totally on spring pressure for trim fore and aft. With the Dial a trim, I have my Waiex set to have climb trim at take off climbout speed (115mph) at just 2 turns off of full up trim with solo weight and full tank. At pattern altitude, I normally turn it one full turn down and pick up the climb speed to 120-125mph indicated.
While cruising and burning off fuel it takes very small changes with fuel burn. If I get down in the 4 gallon left range I’m normally within 2 turns of being full down trim.
Two up and max weight (1,200lbs) is another story. Takeoff with 5 turns down from full up trim. Work my way down to full down trim by 7 gallons left in the tank and then its a pain in the butt. You fly with down pressure and on landing with 2 notches of flaps out of three, it requires virtually no flare. You just fly it into ground effect and wait. The plane will 3 pt with no up pitch movement. Basically your at the rear CG. Not a problem if you understand and fly the plane with this always in the forefront of your brain. Pitch movements need to be smooth and gentle to avoid PIO. Anyone that’s ever flown a 206 tail heavy gets the picture.
As far as up trim in the pattern. Well that’s a problem. I go to full up trim at power reduction on the downwind and fly my base at about 75 unless there is a reason to go faster (big airport) and try to cross the numbers at about 60 indicated. There never has been enough up trim on landing. You just do the arm strong method.
I suspect the conventional tail maybe does a bit better in the trim regard on landing, especially if it has the movable tab. Anyone care to comment on that last part?
Larry
Waiex121YX
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:47 pm
by Sonex541
I would leave the manual trim ,I jflown both and much rather have the manual trim with the small lever on the left side. That’s also what my Sonex has and works great
Adam Simmons
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:29 pm
by Bryan Cotton
A bellcrank used to increase the throw at the spring may work. For my Waiex I bought a Dial-A-Trim but it is still in the shrink wrap.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:06 pm
by fastj22
I have flown both a waiex and sonex with Dial A Trim. The system does work. Its rather challenging to find the sweet spot on the spring bias, you tend to reach the end of range on the knob before you are trimmed. I’m sure with enough tweeking you can find a setting that gives you full trim control through the entire W/B range. Its not a bad system.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:08 pm
by fastj22
Bryan Cotton wrote:A bellcrank used to increase the throw at the spring may work. For my Waiex I bought a Dial-A-Trim but it is still in the shrink wrap.
With your Waiex, you have only two choices, the Dial A Trim or designing an electric substitute that basically does the same thing, but with more range.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:31 pm
by nwawingman
Sonex541 wrote:I would leave the manual trim ,I jflown both and much rather have the manual trim with the small lever on the left side. That’s also what my Sonex has and works great
Adam Simmons
I will second that Adam! I love my old style trim lever setup. Simple and very effective. I will say that I have never used the dial a trim system.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:30 pm
by Tony Lewis
I have flown both and definitely prefer the trim lever.
I modified my lever to be longer and be able to move it with my index finger with my hand resting
on the throttle.
But even in the stock position it is more positive and reliable than the dial-a-trim.
I now have 1,400 hours flying with a stock trim so what do I know.
Just my opinion.
Tony Lewis
N447XL
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:31 pm
by radfordc
LarryEWaiex121 wrote:There never has been enough up trim on landing. You just do the arm strong method.
I suspect the conventional tail maybe does a bit better in the trim regard on landing, especially if it has the movable tab. Anyone care to comment on that last part?Larry
Waiex121YX
My Sonex had a trim tab and it was not able to trim out the nose down effect during landing with flaps. It’s really not an issue as the forces aren’t very much to deal with. Make the trim system work during cruise flight and don’t worry about the landings.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:50 am
by Bryan Cotton
Hey all,
I have a question on routing of the cable. It would seem easy to route it along the same path as the rudder cable. Another option I could see would be under the wing spar, like the nosewheel brake line routing. What did others do for routing?
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:32 pm
by Sonex1517
I routed mine over the top of the main spar tunnel on the pilots side, and under the seat pan.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:34 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Thanks Robbie!
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:19 am
by Rynoth
I also went along the rudder cable until past the spar tunnel on pilots side. Then attached it at a few points along the bulkhead between fwd/aftfuselage before coming forward under the seat pan. Makes for gentle turns in the cable.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:51 am
by Bryan Cotton
Thanks Ryan! We have our cable routed. I also made a little phenolic knob for my wheel. I drilled and tapped for a #8 screw and that is the pivot. Seems to work well for quickly changing from one extreme of trim to the other.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:24 pm
by T41pilot
[/quote]
Nope, thats why I replaced mine with an electric trim system that will handle an infinite range. Same idea, a static spring and a dynamic. the dynamic is attached to a 12V motor spool via a cable that winds up or spools out based on a DPDT switch on my stick. Use a similar system for a wing leveler.[/quote]
John
I’m going with electric trim as well. I was considering using a linear actuator but am interested in your motor and spool idea as well. Can you provide the details on what motor and spool was used and where to source them? What was the approx weight of the setup? i have some leds on my panel to provide trim position so I’ll be adding a potentiometer to the
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:10 pm
by jrs
I would also be very interested in information about your solution. Just started working on my panel today so this thread is very timely for me.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:33 pm
by Rynoth
For what it’s worth, and I’m only 18 hours into my Phase 1, but other than tinkering with my trim the first couple flights I haven’t adjusted my dial-a-trim a single time since. I could imagine making some minuscule tweaks during a long cross country, but through phases of flight (slow/fast/flaps) I’ve felt no need to make trim adjustments. Personally I would consider electronic trim in my Waiex overkill. It’s very different in terms of (lack of) trim adjustments needed to any other plane I’ve flown and I’m practically religious in my constant use of trim in those other planes.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:10 pm
by T41pilot
Yup Ryan. I’ve seen a couple of posts that indicated that trim hasn’t been used much which is great and one less thing to have to deal with when flying. But since I’m in the building stage, I think I would still like to install a trim system just to have it available in lieu of not having one at all just in case. When I built my Panel, I decided against the Big Red knob and installed a rocker switch for elevator trim so I’ve already committed myself. I won’t feel bad if it doesn’t get used much. If I do it right, It won’t add much weight. I agree on flying other aircraft. I used the trim a lot when I used to fly my T41. Old ideas are hard for old timers to get rid of sometimes.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:57 am
by DCASonex
Don’t overlook the original Sonex trim lever. That is so quick and easy to use that I would never convert to the Dial-a-Trim. When landing and put down first stage of flaps, I flip the lever full nose up, and leave it there until finished. Set it back to center before takeoff. Not at all over sensitive when adjusting for level cruise flight.
David A.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:15 pm
by jowens
I agree with David, I have had great luck with the original trim tab and lever. I don’t believe it is an option for a waiex.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:22 pm
by pfhoeycfi
I’m putting the dial a trim in my Sonex B. The plans call for connecting the down spring to the channel just below the flap torque tube, the other end to the elev push rod. The problem is is that the torque tube is in the way…so if you connect the spring to the channel and the other side to elev push rod, the sprint has to bend around the torque tube (making contact to about 1/4 the circumference of the torque tube). All my parts are in the right place.
I’m curious if any B builders with Dial a trim see the same problem and if so, did you secure the end of the spring somewhere other than where the plans indicate?
peter
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:41 am
by SonAl
Quick question for those with the manual trim lever: where did you source your cable to the trim tab from? I can’t find the cable/wire that is called out on the plans on the Aircraft Spruce website.
Thanks.
Al Arbuckle
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:01 am
by sonex892.
SonAl wrote:Quick question for those with the manual trim lever: where did you source your cable to the trim tab from? I can’t find the cable/wire that is called out on the plans on the Aircraft Spruce website.
Thanks.
Al Arbuckle
I bought a length of replacement tubing from a bicycle store they had it on a roll and cut it to length. The wire is just piano wire about 1.5mm dia. Ebay is where I bought some replacement wire.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:40 am
by WesRagle
Hi Al,
I got the “music wire” at McMaster Carr. The housing from Amazon.
Ref:http://sonexbuilders.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4358&p=37340&hilit=Manual+trim+for+a+Onex#p38190
Good Luck,
Wes
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:55 pm
by Spaceman
pfhoeycfi wrote:I’m putting the dial a trim in my Sonex B. The plans call for connecting the down spring to the channel just below the flap torque tube, the other end to the elev push rod. The problem is is that the torque tube is in the way…so if you connect the spring to the channel and the other side to elev push rod, the sprint has to bend around the torque tube (making contact to about 1/4 the circumference of the torque tube). All my parts are in the right place.
I’m curious if any B builders with Dial a trim see the same problem and if so, did you secure the end of the spring somewhere other than where the plans indicate?
peter
I ran into the exact same thing! Here are some pictures of what I did to get around it:
https://paegelow.blogspot.com/2019/12/t … tem-3.html
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:22 am
by John Monnett
Move the spring attach to the bottom of the pushrod… not the side. The plans will be corrected. Sorry for the confusion but this is one of those common sense solutions.
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:09 pm
by pfhoeycfi
I ran into the exact same thing! Here are some pictures of what I did to get around it:
https://paegelow.blogspot.com/2019/12/t … tem-3.html[/quote][/quote]
That’s what I did…
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:37 am
by pfhoeycfi
Has anyone had to use stronger springs on the dial a trim? During initial setup the stick is suppose to be 1 to 2 inches off the carry through assembly full down on the dial. No way. I only get about a half inch with the trim dial set at full up elevator. In other words the fwd spring is stretched to nearly 9 inches and I get almost no up elevator. My controls are loose with no binding at all. I have no idea what the spec for the springs are which makes it difficult choosing another from McMaster. Any ideas?
Peter
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:40 am
by Spaceman
pfhoeycfi wrote:Has anyone had to use stronger springs on the dial a trim? During initial setup the stick is suppose to be 1 to 2 inches off the carry through assembly full down on the dial. No way. I only get about a half inch with the trim dial set at full up elevator. In other words the fwd spring is stretched to nearly 9 inches and I get almost no up elevator. My controls are loose with no binding at all. I have no idea what the spec for the springs are which makes it difficult choosing another from McMaster. Any ideas?
Peter
I ran into the same thing. I ended up cutting a bunch of coils off of the spring to make it shorter/stiffer. I think I also drilled a new hole slightly higher on the stick to give the spring a little more leverage. You cant move it much higher though or the aileron bell crank will hit the spring. I think I have some pictures, I’ll post them later!
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:32 pm
by Spaceman
Here’s what I did!
http://paegelow.blogspot.com/2019/12/pi … 2.html?m=1
Re: Dial a trim
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:26 am
by pfhoeycfi
Spaceman wrote:Here’s what I did!
Ok great ill give that a shot…
Thanks,
Peter