Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:09 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Off to a slow start. Still, it’s a start. I spent some time going through the parts with Adam. Been a long time since we built the plastic visible L4 engine. We started off doing a little QA. We inspected the case per the SB for the breakout- seems good. Next I remember the issues Ryan had with his head. Turned off the lights in the hangar and put a flashlight up each port. Most were good, but I could see light on one side of one intake valve. May be crap stuck in the seat. I could use a recommendation for a valve compressor tool for the VW- anybody?
Next we went to bolt the cam gear to the cam. My cam kit had 3 bolts and two wavy washers. Where is the best place to get one? Any VW afficionados have a spare they could mail me?
Well, onto the rods. Opened up my lithium grease to find it is black, not white as called for. Darn! Any reason I can’t use the moly engine assembly lube I bought? Reading the label it seems like this is what it is for.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:05 am
by wlarson861
The best spring compressor “type” is similar too this one: https://www.amazon.com/Unknown-50602-Valve-Spring-Compressor/dp/B002GQEZH0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1475034656&sr=8-3&keywords=valve+spring+compressor
there are heavier models and I can’t vouch for this particular one. This works with the heads removed only. I tried the type with the 2 jaws that will work with the head still in place on the engine and had clearance issues of getting the jaws on the spring without hitting the edges of the casting. this type is similar to this one: https://www.amazon.com/OTC-4573-Universal-Overhead-Compressor/dp/B000F5HUUI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1475034656&sr=8-2&keywords=valve+spring+compressor
A better test for leaks is to put the plugs in and fill the chambers with gas or solvent and see how long they hold solvent. My last heads, 2 cylinders leaked out in under 15 min. The replacement heads, one leaked enough in 2 hours to see the solvent level had dropped. The other 3 held solvent at the same level overnight. A local IA said that was good enough.
I used white lithium grease to assemble mine but I’m certain I have read on the forum that several people have used the moly lube, don’t know if there are advantages to either.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:13 am
by daleandee
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:51 am
by vwglenn
Bryan Cotton wrote:I could use a recommendation for a valve compressor tool for the VW- anybody?
Next we went to bolt the cam gear to the cam. My cam kit had 3 bolts and two wavy washers. Where is the best place to get one? Any VW afficionados have a spare they could mail me?
Well, onto the rods. Opened up my lithium grease to find it is black, not white as called for. Darn! Any reason I can’t use the moly engine assembly lube I bought? Reading the label it seems like this is what it is for.
You should be able to get the wavy washer just about anywhere It’s just a thin M8(Lowes, Home Depot, Local auto parts, in the Metric section). I’m sure I have a bunch of wavy washers floating around in my garage somewhere.Don’t forget to use some thread locker on those cam bolts. Ask me how I know. :roll:
I have an old valve compression tool for VW heads. Think I’ve used it once. It’s steel and pretty big but I’d be happy to ship it if you’d like. Looks like this but it’s probably 50 years old…
I don’t see why you couldn’t use the assembly lube of your choice but I’ve never actually read the Aerovee assembly manual. Think the last engine I put together I used a friends stuff and it was purple. Turned the engine oil pinkish when we broke the engine in and drained the oil the first time.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:19 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Glenn,
I struck out on wavy washers at Home Depot. I’ll try Lowes.
Adam has used the torque wrench before but this task was an exercise in careful assembly and cleanliness. It came out good. Funny how the rods spin poorly until you start to torque them down.
All our side clearances were good. We measured one up at .014 just for the exercise then verified the rest were > .005 and < .020.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:35 am
by vwglenn
I’ll go dig through my pile of VW crap and see if I can’t find a washer for you. PM me your address and I’ll shove some in a envelope on the off chance you can’t find one. Let me know if you wan the vavle spring compressor. I can mail it to ya and you can hold it till I see you again or mail it on to the next guy who needs it. I don’t do my own head work. There’s a local shop I have do all that kind of work.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:22 am
by Bryan Cotton
Glenn,
Found some wavy washers at Menards this AM. They are zinc plated. Looks similar to the ones in the kit- so I guess I’ll use them. I have a valve spring compressor on its way. Thanks for the offer!
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:50 am
by Bryan Cotton
I’ve been cleaning up the case. Here is a case saver before I cleaned up the chips from milling for clearance:
I noticed the case savers can still spin. I had to spin some as it seems the machining operation spun them enough at the end that they were sticking up inside. Is it common to not locktite them in? No reference to it in the manual so I plan to continue.
Hard to see but I put mineral spirits in the head that passed the flashlight test:
It made it through a couple hours yesterday and I’ll check it later today. Regarding the other head, Kerry instructed me to send it back. Good service there and thanks to the guys who shared their problems so I knew to check early.
I think I am going to put in tim-serts proactively.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:15 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Here I am teaching Adam to be as studly as I am:
How in the heck did you guys get the front pressure relief valve in? The spring is a mile long and I can’t get the theads to engage. Managed to not shoot the plug to Saturn at least.
I also figured a way to get the plug out. Get a soft piece of wood that is a tight, slightly oversize fit and tap it in. This is a good way to check for freedom of movement before you commit. I ended up havin to polish mine down slightly.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:23 am
by Area 51%
Why aren’t there any threads in the other spark-plug hole? That is a second plug hole, isn’t it?
For whatever it’s worth…When it comes time to prime your oil pump, here is what I have done in the past on the VW aircooled auto engines. I took an old oil pump cover and drilled a hole on the centerline of the drive gear a little larger than the shaft. It’s easy to find the centerline as the pump gear leaves wittness marks on the cover. Then I turned the drive gear around so the shaft sticks out of the hole. (If you use the gear/shaft that will be used in the running engine, do not grab it with a drill motor to turn it for fear of scarring the shaft.) So, either attach a drill to the protruding shaft (sacrificial), or to a coupler of some sort to s
pin the shaft. A very thin O-ring between the gear and cover will keep the oil from coming out wholesale, but it still tends to be a messy process. Just the same, all the galleys and lifters will have oil available from the first crank of the engine.
Also, the VW manuals that I have, (written on stone tablets) recommend Vaseline as a priming agent, not grease.
Issueing grains of salt here @ Area 51%
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:07 am
by sonex569
For what It is worth, I used a hand pressure sprayer. Modified the hose to attach to pressure sender port. Kept pumping oil in until the oil was weeping out the push-rods. Felt it was well oiled before first start.
Regards
Dick
Sonex569
http://growgreenmi.com/1-gal-flo-master … oCdQvw_wcB
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:55 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Dick,
Good idea - thanks for sharing.
After a couple tries we got the dowel pins lined up and the case joined. No interference.
The pressure relief valves cooperated tonight. Not sure why. We are missing two main bearing stud seals. I’ve sent an inquiry to Sonex.
Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:32 pm
by Sonex1517
[quote=“Bryan Cotton”]
The pressure relief valves cooperated tonight. Not sure why. ]
Must have been the cursing…
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:12 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Robbie,
Your suggestion was the only helpful one I got on this topic. I think the valve overheard me telling the cursing plan to Adam and it shaped up. I did spend some time sanding and polishing the plunger to fit better, perhaps it was not down all the way on the first attempts.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:10 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Adam and I were working away on the Aerovee when he spotted rule #7:
In haste, we pulled the engine off the stand.
You can see my two new valve spring compressors. The C clamp one does not work on the VW head because of interference with the valve cover boss. The other one works but is a hazard. Thanks to Robbie’s helpful advice we got it to work. We pulled the valve, seat was clean, but we still had a light leak. I’m off to see if I have a 36mm socket in my collection.
I see we are neck and neck with Darick. To ensure we beat him into the air we plan to fly this year. I figure about December 142nd or so.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:47 am
by Darick
Bryan, you had me confused and concerned for a while but then I realized it was just a ploy to give yourself a possible lead. I won’t waste anymore time trying to figure out what December 142nd is.
I, on the other hand, will give you a tip to keep you speedily progressing.
I noticed you have not painted your engine which can be problematic as they can be very temperamental, as you have already experienced with the uncooperative valve. An engine likes a nice good looking paint job. Yours is angry with you and will keep giving you problems unless it is painted. I suggest you take it apart and start over with a nice paint job.
I’ve changed my lift off date to early next year…or maybe sooner. :roll:
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:35 am
by vwglenn
The only time my VW gets mad is when I ignore it too long. It’s currently pissed at me.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:09 pm
by Bryan Cotton
I splurged on the machined angle components and the prebuilt wingspar, so I figured why spend a bunch of dough on a fancy prop. I am a reformed scratch builder after all.
Here Adam is checking our end gap with feeler gauges before we selected shims.
We measured the shims with the Chinese digital readout calipers and then I busted out the old Brown & Sharp caliper to teach him how to use the good stuff. We are dreadfully close to closing up the case. Our final end gap was .005".
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:33 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Adam discovering the joys of permatex #3:
All torqued and ready for pistons:
We have not had a lot of time lately, but it is going together fast!
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:55 pm
by Bryan Cotton
I put a little grease on each of the plug threads, screwed them in, and torqued to 12 ft-lbs. All seemed good so I think I will skip the time-serts for now. Here Adam is checking the ring gap:
They were all good so onto the deck height. Ours was +0.00725" or piston down .01" from the top of the cylinder.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:40 am
by Bryan Cotton
I am glad the World Series is over. I am not a sports fan but Adam has become one. Now I have my co-builder back. Here is Adam experiencing the ring compressor for the first time.
He got pretty good at getting the piston into the jug. The third cyclinder was killing us though. Every time we tried to push it back out to expose the wristpin we went too far and the oil ring popped out. Adam had 6 tries and I took one. Then we decided this was a sign it was quitting time.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:46 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Here is the solution for putting the piston in the right amount. We put about 4.2" of shims in the cylinder. In the picture the cylinder needs to be flipped over before we put the piston in.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:05 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Remember I said we flipped the cylinder over before putting the piston in? I guess not!
Permatex time. The bigger the blob, the better the job- right? Only kidding, I’ve taught him to use it sparingly.
And, one side done. Then he was out for a lesson in the J3.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:13 am
by Bryan Cotton
Head in place. Thanks to all who discussed pushrod tubes via the other thread and email. Mine were good.
Adam torquing down head bolts:
After we got back Adam went and found his Visible L4 model he built at age 11 or 12. He wants to get it working. It used to sort of work, but his skills were less back then and I didn’t want to take over. Smart move.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:00 pm
by ScottM-Sonex1629
You guys almost look ready to install on the airframe and have the first start!
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:16 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Should I run it after it is built or wait until close to taxi & flight?
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:58 pm
by Bryan Cotton
This job sucks. Would be totally worth it to dry assemble the engine after the deck height check and trim the pushrods out of the engine.
I discovered the Aerovee uses the same plugs as my Saturn.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:14 am
by ScottM-Sonex1629
Bryan Cotton wrote:Should I run it after it is built or wait until close to taxi & flight?
Bryan - keep your engine pickled until your ready to do extensive ground runs and taxing, etc. I only pre-oiled mine and then the engine sat for over a year before first start. I’m just trying to encourage you and your son to keep up the good work and get closer to finishing!
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:56 pm
by Bryan Cotton
To trim the pushrods, I first did one by hand and considered it my “reference” pushrod. Next, I got a piece of 2X4 and drilled a couple 3/8" holes in it. The pushrods were a snug fit in the holes. On the left you can see I made a reference gauge out of scrap, so the new pushrod will always stick out of the 2X4 the same amount. This dimension can be anything, it just needs to be repeatable. Then I stuck my reference pushrod in, and squared up the ends with the ball.
Now over to the drill press. I adjusted the height of the table until the cutoff wheel just scraped on the reference pushrod.
And time to cut. The dremel wheel was not holding up so I had to find the big boy wheel.
I don’t have a lathe.
And then a major setback- one of the lifters slipped out when we joined the case. We have to split it.
Crap.
Re: Cotton AeroVee 0795
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:06 am
by gammaxy
I used a pipe cutter to cut the pushrods.
Sorry about the lifter slipping out. I’m surprised you didn’t hear it moving around when you were flipping the engine back and forth. The assembly video shows how to hold the lifters in position using clothespins while assembling the case.
