Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:54 pm
by SnakePilot
Unless I missed it, I haven’t been able to find a conversation about using a Corvair in a Waiex B build.
Will anyone admit to considering a B/Corvair?
Are there airframe differences from the A model that preclude this?
Has anyone built, or know of a B/Corvair engine mount source?
Has anyone built, or know of a B/Corvair cowling source?
Is there a source for a B auxiliary tank?
Lots of great information and engineering theory in this thread to keep the Experimental movement alive!
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 11:13 pm
by daleandee
Deleted as dupicate
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:27 am
by SnakePilot
Dale, thanks for your reply and the good information. I did watch several of your videos before receiving your PM. I’m going to do a lot more research with your threads but I also have a lot of history with a Corvair engine in 3 Corsa 140s I owned and a Greenbrier, so love wrenching on that engine!
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:16 pm
by lakespookie
http://www.azaleaaviation.com/products/ … gines.html
Just ran across this site and talking to Bill had been positive I am probably going this route at this point
I am sending him a jabiru tricycle mount so he can probably work out a jig from that, for other b models as the mounting points won’t change
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:33 pm
by lakespookie
My engine mount is on the way to be modified and the engine is ordered only big ticket item left is the avionics lol. Snake if you do reach out to bill at azalea tell him jill sent you lol.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:19 pm
by SnakePilot
Thanks, Jill.
Anxious to see how the B mount and engine work out. I haven’t decided which Corvair format I prefer, but interested to also hear from FlyCovair and Azalea owners about their installs. Cheers!
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:10 pm
by lakespookie
I anticipate the performance should be the same 120 HP is 120 HP, granted prop choice has some influence, if you build it all your self the FlyCorvair folks will get you flying at a decent price, if you are looking to purchase a built corvair your options are FLYSPA at around 20k depending on how much of the kit you have them assemble and core etc. vs 13k. for the spyder corvair.
Obviously FWF and other cost add on to that but i am very happy with the price i got on the full kit including engine, FWF, and Prop. Granted until i have it in hand and installed its all up in the air.
I was also able to get an upgraded Alternator at 65 amps which makes me feel much better considering the avionics and lighting i am including in my kit.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:53 pm
by SnakePilot
Jill,
Did Bill give you an estimate of completed weight?
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:35 am
by GordonTurner
Discussion of this on William Wynnes Corvair Facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1117842 … 7S9Ucbxw6v
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:01 am
by SnakePilot
Thanks, Gordon. Now… if I just had a FB account to fully take advantage of the WW site. Just too cantankerous to modernize!
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:05 pm
by BobDz
GordonTurner wrote:Discussion of this on William Wynnes Corvair Facebook group:
Me too!
Just can’t bring myself to go back on Facebook.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:42 pm
by daleandee
SnakePilot wrote:Thanks, Gordon. Now… if I just had a FB account to fully take advantage of the WW site. Just too cantankerous to modernize!
I don’t Fakebook either. There is a lot of Fly Corvair information via the Tube:
https://www.youtube.com/@WWFlycorvair/videos
And how about a Corvair powered twin …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIMVkTk26fw
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:29 pm
by lakespookie
SnakePilot wrote:Jill,
Did Bill give you an estimate of completed weight?
Most Corvairs are going to come in around 210 to 215 so you need to plan for that with a 3 blade prop its a little heavier than a 2 blade so those two things work against you and its why its not a factory supported engine. You could go with a 2 blade but its still going to be over weight and will be a bigger compromise in performance due to the limited prop clearance we get in these planes. I assume the torque curves on the corvair can make better use of the 3 blade to get better climb performance as a 3 blade produces more thrust for the same RPM, the trade off is efficiency due to the extra drag of the 3rd blade center section, A three blade should in theory also be smoother as the generated air pulse should be more consistent than a two blade, I wont say it will be quieter because the RPM range is still roughly in the same window so your blade speed should still match up and blade tip speed tends to be the biggest contributor to noise.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:39 pm
by lakespookie
Here is a nice write up on corvairs from this year on kit planes https://www.kitplanes.com/corvair-2024- … ers-guide/ it includes power cost and weight.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:57 pm
by BobDz
Very cool builders log Jill.
I have to start watching the Saturday live stream.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 11:29 pm
by SnakePilot
WOW,Jill!
That is a great article that gives lots of information and comparisons. Well done. Just what I needed. Thanks!
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 4:20 pm
by SnakePilot
Dale, thanks for the links! I’ve got a few videos to watch! Happy flying.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 7:56 pm
by daleandee
SnakePilot wrote:Dale, thanks for the links! I’ve got a few videos to watch! Happy flying.
Here’s a good video for understanding a lot about building your own from a core you find, assembling from an engine kit, or purchasing a full blown assembled engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FykVa4pKlGg
BTW … this appears to be a good deal on a 100hp Corvair on Barnstormers that was also mentioned on WW’s Fakebook page:
https://www.barnstormers.com/classified … rvair.html
FWIW,
Dale
3.0 Corvair/Tailwheel
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:23 pm
by SnakePilot
Thanks for the links, Dale. I’ll check them out.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:44 pm
by lakespookie
BobDz wrote:Very cool builders log Jill.
I have to start watching the Saturday live stream.
Feel free to hop in when every you see me online, It tends to be a later stream cause i am on the west coast but in general its nice to talk to folks show them what i am doing and always open to discussing tools techniques etc.
we are currently working on the control surfaces for the wings so its gotten a little less boring than the wings, that tended to be very repetitive and not great watching especially when you are deburing a gazilion holes lol.
But otherwise i try to make it entertaining and informative, i got a couple of avid aussies who watch 1-2 streams a month.
The only time i dont stream a build session on a Saturdays is if I am traveling or there is significant weather which is not typical for SD but has been happening a ton the last few weeks.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 9:36 am
by SnakePilot
Hey, Jill.
Have you received your engine and/or mount from Azalea yet?
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 8:01 pm
by lakespookie
No they are currently reworking the jabiru mount i had and i am in no rush on the engine i wont be ready for it till the end of the year or so anyways
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 1:33 am
by SnakePilot
OK, thanks, Jill for your reply. I was just checking in. Bill may be the only “qualified” source for building a Corvair mount for a B-model. I hope he makes a jig for it… I suspect there will be many others to follow… especially taildraggers, like I’m hoping for.
On another note, how do you compare the Azalea 5th Bearing with the WW one?
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 8:18 am
by Timmyjane
Please do all your research on using Azalea aviation. My experience was less than positive. The work I received was not what I wanted in an airplane part. Many others have had a similar experience.
No one has made a mount for the B model. SPA designed and built the A model mount and stated they will not be making a B model mount in order to keep the peace with Sonex. John wasn’t pleased with the Corvair adaption and that is why it was called the Cleanex.
It is probably best if you guys talking about using a Spyder and having Azalea build a mount to make a Facebook account and do some research. If you do go Azalea you will only be able to buy parts from them. You will have no support from WW or SPA FYI.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 9:34 am
by Timmyjane
To the 3 blade prop:
This is pulled from the WW Flycorvair Facebook group. The topic prompted WW to make a series of 7 posts or so that discussed propeller theory and design.
“Jeremy, putting a 3 blade warp drive prop on a corvair is a bad idea. I have been a warp drive dealer longer than some people on their crew have been alive. I have tested all kinds of combinations, and 3 blades don’t work because the 3 blades have too much area for the amount of HP the engine makes without the tips being heavily tapered, which doesn’t work well,”
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 10:40 am
by SnakePilot
@Timmyjane, thanks for your input. Lots to consider.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 12:59 pm
by daleandee
Timmyjane wrote:Please do all your research on using Azalea aviation. My experience was less than positive. The work I received was not what I wanted in an airplane part. Many others have had a similar experience.
I’m hesitant to weigh in on this because while I’ve met Bill Clapp and looked at his offerings, I have had no experience with his stuff as I’m solidly in the William Wynne & Dan Weseman camps when it comes to Corvair flight engines.
Having said that I’ve heard various things about Azalea’s offerings and at one point viewed a video showing a Corvair mount from his shop that had some pretty nasty welds on it. If I were looking for a mount for a B model (or the new high wing - yes I might) I’d find someone that was smarter than me to design the mount and then have a certified welder to put it together for me. The Model A mount that my Cleanex uses came from Dan Weseman and it is built very solid. It is designed for aerobatic flight and grass field operations.
Dale
3.0 Corvair/Tailwheel
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 1:15 pm
by SnakePilot
Dale, thanks for your valuable bits of wisdom, presented in your usual fair and diplomatic style.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 2:50 pm
by WaiexN143NM
Ok all im going to chime in.
azalea. They built the wing tanks kits (about 15) for our sonex/waiex ‘s. a few years ago. woefully disappointed.
months late
instructions a joke.
dirty filthy inside the tanks and some type of sponge installed never disclosed.
what was promised did not show up. aviation grade? lol!
they never installed a set, that was evident. just took some dimensions from the first guy who got a set of tanks on his flying plane.
supplied a roll of gorilla tape for the round tanks / rib area, instead of teflon tape.
supplied cheap amazon electric fuel pumps from china $9.99 instead of facet pumps.
user reviews , dont work, leak, didnt provide check valve or positive block backflow.
JUNK. i cautioned people not to use them. one person did and had a major fuel leak inside his plane.
vent hardware wouldnt work as supplied due to the fiberglass wing tip.
the drain valves need extenders and not all were welded in rotationally correct.
instructions didnt match what we got.
photos on install instructions show welded tabs on outer tank to mount to ouboard rib. what i got was a few hacked off pieces of alum angle and some band straps that were too small to go around the tank.
jeff schultz was the point man on this, im not sure if he ever installed his tanks. i was the first to install
the tanks and came up w procedure and correct hardware to use. i helped a few get their tanks in w
instruction. jeff kindly sent me a couple facet pumps and apologized for the state of the kits.
we paid aviation prices and got walmart quality. i sent jeff a box of hardware so he could get his tanks installed, facet pump teflon tape hardware blue fuel cubes from sonex to prevent wing fuel sloshing. instructions.
the tanks were promised to be shipped in wooden crates. they showed up wrapped in cardboard.
one person paul got 2 kits. it took all day on the phone w bill clapp. he finally went to a ups store on his own and shipped it to the correct purchaser. then to get reimbursed. one person got a tank with a bent flange, another the flange was welded wrong, removed, and patched.
no 2 kits were the same, each one some different hardware.
im glad i have the tanks installed. do i think we got good quality kits for our money? no way.
just revisting this is getting my bp worked up again.
im in the zenith community too., my father and i were building a zenith cruzer together.
many people in the zenith community have had it w azalea. removed their engines. gave up. went with a different motor. sold what they had at a big loss. emails or phone calls not answered for months.
waiting to fly, needed their intake and exhaust manifolds. took a year, when they showed up unusuable.
bad welding warped could not be used.
you do what you want with your money, if you want grief, fustration, anger, stupidity then go for it.
you have been forewarned!
see you all at airventure.
michael.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 3:49 pm
by SnakePilot
“RUN TO THE LIGHT, CAROL ANNE!!!”
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 7:10 pm
by WaiexN143NM
snake pilot ,
you are more than welcome to go spend your money w azalea, but you have been warned.
but dont come back here whinning , after the fiasco starts.
dave tehema who did the 48 state tour with his zenith cruzer , originally had a azalea spyder corvair.
it came apart and a forced landing occured. he re engined with a viking to do the tour.
if you mention bill clapps name dave will start shaking. he got no help whatsoever from azalea after.
our fuel tank kits were a joke. $1500 . we were promised aviation quality. just got chinese junk. only the basic alum tank is usuable.
numerous unhappy customers in the zenith community.
very bad quality parts.
go for it , i wouldnt myself place my life in the hands of anything that comes out of bill clapps shop.
you are welcome to run to the light that is bill clapps business.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 8:33 pm
by SnakePilot
Michael,
Sorry my strange “Poltergeist” humor was misunderstood.
Your long list of issues was pretty well defined as to reasons for your disappointment and distrust. It answered some gut feelings I was sensing already and uneasy about. Thank you for your unfiltered honesty in sharing your difficulties. It was made clear where you stand, and why
Now, thanks to you, I’m going to stay focused on my original gut choice, which has a loyal following and positive feedback… so… I’m “Running to the light!”
Snake
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 9:58 pm
by WaiexN143NM
snakepilot,
i love the corvair, dont get me wrong. i would fly in a corvair powered plane.
WW ive met. Dan and rachel from fly spa are great people.
i had the pleasure of sitting at the same table at the thur nite eaa homebuilders dinner at the nature center a couple yrs ago.. with their family. they have the panther homebuilt , i hear great respect from people about them.
they are with WW on the corvair parts i believe. good quality parts., fwf, although no mount for a B sonex.
get a mount somewhere or modify one.
i wish jill the best of luck, although now knowing the pitfalls it may help her keep azalea on track.
regards
michael.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 1:44 am
by SnakePilot
Does anyone know of a source for scaled drawings of the Cleanex Cowling and Nosebowl, as employed on Sonex/Waiex?
Ideally, having a plan view, side view, and frontal view would be preferred, but I’d take whatever is available. Thanks.
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 12:09 pm
by daleandee
SnakePilot wrote:Does anyone know of a source for scaled drawings of the Cleanex Cowling and Nosebowl, as employed on Sonex/Waiex?
Ideally, having a plan view, side view, and frontal view would be preferred, but I’d take whatever is available. Thanks.
PM Sent
Dale
3.0 Corvair/Tailwheel
Re: Corvair Engines - B Model
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:48 am
by WaiexN143NM
ok all,
here is some more info for you to ponder.
please if you have a facebook account. go to azalea aviation /bill clapp be aware.
see all the negative posts. make you own adult decisions , spend your money where you please.
Jill get your mount back, work with WW/ fly spa
dan and rachel.
be safe and have a reliable engine in your aircraft.
As u can see posted from a couple days ago, on a couple sites
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com. mishaps.
bill clapp crashed his own saberwing with a corvair spyder due to engine failure.
lucky hes alive.
do what you want. The fuel kits he made for us junk.
AGAIN. you have been forewarned!
michael.