B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:47 pm
by killerfish72
Still working up the courage to place an order…and get full spousal permission! She’s onboard, but it’s more about when vs. if. Today, she didn’t say ‘no’ to getting started right away. She didn’t say yes either, but we’re getting closer.
Anyway, I’m bouncing between a Sonex B Model or an RV-12is. Obviously, the RV-12is is much more expensive and the mission is a bit different (more of a cruiser). With that said, the important part to me as a first time builder is ease of building. I’m fairly certain that a Sonex A model vs. an RV-12 is more difficult to build. What I’m curious to learn, however, is if there’s been a substantial amount of improvements made in the B model to make it more of an ‘assembly’ vs. build process. It seems the RV-12is is certainly more of an assembly process. The new B model seems to have caught up quite a bit with fit and finish with machined canopy bows, ABS side moldings, etc. But I do not have insight into whether it has gotten easier to build with even less fabrication/head scratching…
Any thoughts from the group is greatly appreciated!
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:59 pm
by Bryan Cotton
I am building my classic A model with my kid. We started when he was 12, now he is 17. I think it is pretty easy.
I would assume the B build is much like a later A build with a few improvements and a few new problems.
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:28 pm
by killerfish72
Thanks Bryan, I have been following your thread. It seems like the B model addresses 2 ‘headaches’ from the A model: Cowling and Canopy fitting. So that’s a good start. Didn’t know how much fabrication and/or bending the new B model kit eliminates (if any) vs. an A model kit.
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:41 pm
by racaldwell
KF, I think for somebody to answer your question they would have had to build an A and a B in order to experience the differences. Maybe there is somebody out there who has but I doubt there are more than a few.
I think to make building easiest is just to order as many parts already completed as you can afford. Quick-build, machined parts, bolt-on engine fwf, etc. That’s a pricey way to go but the easiest. I am mostly opposite in that I am making parts and it is taking years. But I don’t care. I have an RV-6 to fly and I enjoy building. The RV-6 (before quick=builds and prepunched holes) was my 1st plane to build. It takes thousands of hours of labor but the skills are not difficult to learn. I did and many 1,000’s of builders have. You can too if you like creating something with your hands.
You will soon forget about the hours building once you have a flying plane. The decision needs to be on what type of flying you want to do and what is the path that will get you there.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 999 hrs
One Design 250 hrs & sold
Xenos 0057 forward fuselage
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:52 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Also, FWIW, I did not think the canopy or cowl were bad. Not sure if my experience is atypical or if only the troubled builders are vocal. Both are a lot of hours, especially the canopy.
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:00 pm
by samiam
I know exactly what you are asking; it was a difficult question to answer when I was looking at the Sonex.
The original “A” model kit is really hard to define, because it was constantly being refined and upgraded over the years. I bought a 10 year old second hand kit. At that time, the original owner had purchased the “machined parts” and prebuilt spars upgrades. These are now standard on the B model. However, my older kit was before the “laser cut match hole kit”, and you had to drill from channel stock. I can now purchase those parts online, but you can see the difficulty here - if you ask an “A” builder how much work they had to do, it really depends on when they built the kit and what upgrades they did or did not go for.
This is purely my opinion, but I don’t think the RV-12 would be substantially less work or easier than a late model A or a B model kit. The Sonex is such a simple airframe, and the later models have such a large amount of the work done for you. Lots of parts just cleco together out of the box. It is a very refined kit, and has come a very long way from the first kits that shipped nearly 20 years ago.
The downside of the refinements is obvious - the price has gone up. It’s not as expensive as an RV-12 at this point, but not as cheap as original Sonex models either. Even still, the 20k savings is nothing to sneeze at.
So if money is no concern, I would just choose whichever one you like more. Either one is very doable for a first time builder.
Good luck,
Mike
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:19 pm
by killerfish72
Thanks guys, yep - I guess it’s the same as buying really…mission, mission, mission. Pick the mission and that’s the one to build. thx!
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:48 pm
by killerfish72
One more thought: Any Sonex Builders/Owners at KHAO? Would love to try one on and take a closer look and understand your build experience if you’re the builder.
Thanks!
KF
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:08 am
by ihab
I will say this based on observation of a friend of mine who’s building a Sonex “B” model – don’t be afraid to get the tools that will make your work easier. The Sonex literature may or may not call out various “aircraft” tools like angle drills, but if you find they simplify your life, buy them! My friend had a lot of trouble drilling around the tailpost without one!
Ihab
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:41 am
by killerfish72
ihab wrote:I will say this based on observation of a friend of mine who’s building a Sonex “B” model – don’t be afraid to get the tools that will make your work easier. The Sonex literature may or may not call out various “aircraft” tools like angle drills, but if you find they simplify your life, buy them! My friend had a lot of trouble drilling around the tailpost without one!
Ihab
Good advice. Plus, you get to have new tools!
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:05 am
by Bryan Cotton
I have said it often, both here and on the Saturn forum - the primary purpose of the hobby is to collect tools.
An angle drill, snake drill, drill press, and a right angle sander are all musts in my book. Plus a scotch brite wheel on the bench grinder. And a bandsaw, holesaws, reamers, v block…
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:13 am
by dbdevkc
I am building a legacy Waiex, and after years of only working on it occasionally I am now spending most of my free time building. I wouldn’t consider it “difficult”, but there are times when I have to consider the possible ways to accomplish a task. And like most others, I have ruined pieces or parts and either reordered the part from Sonex or scratch built a replacement. But that seems to be part of the process, not sure if that is avoidable.
And regarding tools, decent tools are a joy to work with. When I started my build, I bought the bottom of the line Harbor Freight bench drill press and bandsaw. Despite trying my best to finesse the setup on both, the bandsaw always shook like mad and the drill press had (what I considered) unacceptable runout issues and vibration. Upgraded to a (non-HF) floor model drill press, and found a 50’s era home craftsman bandsaw. Every time I use the bandsaw I think how nice it is to use a decent tool - even though it is not a high end tool, by comparison it is great.
Kevin
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:05 pm
by DCASonex
What to build depends on your interest in building vs getting into the air quickly. Nothing on the Sonex is particularly difficult, but can be time consuming depending on what you do or do not get in the way of quick build parts. If you enjoy the opportunity to use a bit of your own ingenuity to customize to your preferences and the chance to learn by doing new things, the Sonex may be your best bet. If wanting something to throw together and get in the air quickly, consider the RV12. Also, as you noted, their missions are different. The Sonex is an aerobatic rated plane that is just fun to hank and bank. But add a dual axis autopilot and it also makes for a nice cruiser, if you and wife fit it comfortably. If you are another tool nut, you will be acquiring some new stuff with either plane. For things you will use frequently, get the best you can afford, and for things like drills, be it pneumatic or battery, good quality allows for ample power while keeping small and light so that hand fatigue, which leads to errors, does not become a factor. Either way, it is likely that you will spend more time building than flying. If you like making things, set up a proper work space and invest what is needed to be able to enjoy the build,
David A. Sonex “A”: TD with CAMit 3300
Re: B-Model Build Ease vs ‘Legacy/A’ Model
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:35 pm
by killerfish72
Great Advice Dave - really appreciate it. I do like the mission flexibility of the Sonex and think my wife and I will fit just fine, but do want to try one on first. I’m ok doing a slower build as I do own a very nice Cessna 152 that I can fly up until Engine install as selling that is my engine/avionics fund 