aileron installation
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:30 pm
by wingnut99
I’m about to mount the lead on the aileron and wrap up everything but the wing tip since I’ll probably wait to shop for lighting at Oshkosh. When I attach the weight to the arms my thought was to leave one side of the wing skin off so I can remove enough lead to get it to balance, at least pretty close without having to keep removing the aileron during the process. Is the goal to get the weight to cause the aileron to float in accordance with the description given on the plans? It shows a straight line off the top of the aileron surface to a point up the wing with a dimension above a location on the wing. Do the controls have to be attached inside the fuselage eventually to see if both ailerons are in balance when connected? Wingnut
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:40 pm
by mike.smith
The balancing is done BEFORE you install it on the airplane. I put a long hinge pin through the hinge so that at least an inch was protruding from each end. Tied a piece of string to each end of that hinge pin, then found the balance/center point of the string hanging on my finger, with the aileron hanging just above my flat work bench. Now you can check the clearance per the plans and remove lead as required. I used a 1/2" dia. drill bit and drilled partial holes to remove material, staying away from the through-bolts.
See the detail on W-03, and note that if you are painting the aileron it should be painted BEFORE doing the balancing.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:42 pm
by Bryan Cotton
I did all my balancing off the wing as documented on this page of my thread:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=578&start=550
With the acro ailerons you can’t balance to 100%, i.e. aileron level. Instead you balance to make them the same. You should take lead out of the back side of the counterweight, as it will require more lead removal and therefore less weight.
Weight is the enemy.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:25 pm
by wingnut99
I was noticing that drawing of a line coming up from the hinge Sunday while I was looking at the aileron detail. That seems pretty straight forward then. Just suspend the aileron by the hinge pin and remove lead from the thick end nearest the hinge so that you have to remove more to effect the balance than would be required on the far end. That makes sense. It looked like the weight would contact the upper and lower skin when the aileron is deflected in either direction. If so, is that a problem with it denting the skin outward? Thanks for the help everyone as always.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:56 am
by Bryan Cotton
My counterweights do not contact the skin when the controls are installed. It is close.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:17 pm
by Rynoth
My aileron balancing:
http://www.rynoth.com/wordpress/waiex/2 … -ailerons/
These were the aerobatic ailerons, which don’t go level like the standard ailerons, I was simply trying to match them while removing as little material as possible for maximum counterweight. Turns out, I did a good job cutting the lead block and removed no lead whatsoever to achieve a matched result. I stuck a hinge pin in and used loops of kite string to attach them to ratchet straps to tune in level.
In my plane, the counterweights do indeed contact the bottom skin and end up being the limit on my aileron deflection, which I tend to prefer versus a stop somewhere else in the control system (i.e. max available deflection is possible.) I imagine while actually flying I will very rarely be at max deflection, especially with the extra roll authority of the aerobatic ailerons. The contact with the skin has a fairly large contact area though (the whole counterweight appears to contact the skin at the same time) and so far denting the lower skin while on the ground playing with the controls does not appear to be an issue. Upper skin contact is unlikely since the opposite aileron will contact the lower skin first, providing a stop.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:31 pm
by Bryan Cotton
Turns out, I did a good job cutting the lead block and removed no lead whatsoever to achieve a matched result.
You keep rubbing that in! Of course I would have too, but my lead cutting Kung-Fu was weak.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:40 pm
by wingnut99
Thanks for the pic. I’m not sure if my work is as art worthy as your’s looks but I’m doing OK I think. About all I have left on this wing is to rivet it together and attach the tips but I don’t have lights yet so that’ll have to wait until Oshkosh. Do you think it would be safe to run wiring for the position lights so I could close the wing and free up the clecos. I suppose I need a hot and ground in 14 guage but I’m guessing.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:01 pm
by Rynoth
I didn’t install lighting on my wingtips, but I did install conduit to make installing them later on an easy task:
http://www.rynoth.com/wordpress/waiex/2 … ompletion/
If you’re not sure the wiring requirement yet, doing conduit will still provide a safe/protected passage for whatever wires you do need to run in the future. I believe I used 1/2" diameter nylon(or some other plastic) water line from Home Depot, should stand up well to chafing and protect any wiring. I enlarged the tooling holes slightly to accommodate.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:42 pm
by mike.smith
wingnut99 wrote:Do you think it would be safe to run wiring for the position lights so I could close the wing and free up the clecos. I suppose I need a hot and ground in 14 guage but I’m guessing.
Absolutely. Running conduit is a good idea. Depending on the light fixture, and whether you will have two with a wig-wag effect, you may need anywhere from 2-4 wires. Put a pull string in the conduit so you can just pull the wires through later, rather than having to try to push them through. I always recommend you not use the aircraft structure as a ground, for anything. Run a dedicated ground wire instead, all the way to a common ground block. Bad grounds will ruin your day later on.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:43 pm
by mike.smith
wingnut99 wrote:It looked like the weight would contact the upper and lower skin when the aileron is deflected in either direction. If so, is that a problem with it denting the skin outward?
Mine has done that for 5 years. No dents in the wing skin, though.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:00 pm
by wingnut99
Thanks guys. I recall seeing a Sonex in this forum with clear nylon tubing running through the nose ribs. I have a bunch of pull string from when I buried 800’ of conduit 3’ underground to bring power from the road to the barn a few years back. I’ll just slide that through some flexible conduit or tubing for later. I’m going to look around at Oshkosh and decide on what I want for lights and get them then. I’ll be lucky if I get the other wing built by then.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:37 am
by DCASonex
You mentioned using 14 Ga. With modern LED lighting for position, strobe and landing lights that may be overkill and added weight. Check out what is recommended for the lights you are thinking you may use. For some strobes, may even want shielded, but might us multi-conductor.
David A.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:07 pm
by wingnut99
You’re right, LED lights don’t require many amps. I’ll have to see what other Waiex and Sonex builder’s have used and see what new designs might be available. With the slanted under wingtips it is kinda challenging to get a position light isn’t somewhat hidden. I suppose it can be mounted on some kind of built out extension but there’s probably someone selling a mount or light to remedy that. I’ve already looked at a few and figure out that no matter what you buy it’ll be 10 times what it would cost for a different vehicle like a boat or a trailer.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:50 pm
by GordonTurner
http://www.gaugepods.com/aircraft.html
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:43 pm
by N190YX
You don’t need to put a string in the conduit when you install it, you can to what the Electricians do and use compressed air to blow a string through the conduit when the time comes to pull wires through.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:58 pm
by sonex892.
N190YX wrote:You don’t need to put a string in the conduit when you install it, you can to what the Electricians do and use compressed air to blow a string through the conduit when the time comes to pull wires through.
One of this electricians favourite tricks is sucking a string through conduit with a vacuum cleaner.
Steve
Sonex 892
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:20 pm
by DCASonex
To get my combination position and strobe lights out where they can be seen, I used a mount from Van’s that is glassed in place high on the slanted wing tip. Also have seen some complete wing tips with this incorporated from one of the LED light manufactures, i think might have been AeroLEDs.
David A.
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:18 pm
by thomas
Bryan Cotton wrote:
With the acro ailerons you can’t balance to 100%, i.e. aileron level.
Can someone explain the reason why it is called out in the plans to fully balance the standard ailerons (within 1/2" of level at the trailing edges) while the more massive acro ailerons do not require full balancing other than being consistent with the left and right’s imbalance? I’m glad this topic came up now as I’ve built my wing boxes for the acro aileron option but, as I get ready to make control surfaces, I’d like to pause to understand the rationale on the balancing.
Thanks,
Paul
Re: aileron installation
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:54 pm
by Rynoth
thomas wrote:
Bryan Cotton wrote:
With the acro ailerons you can’t balance to 100%, i.e. aileron level.Can someone explain the reason why it is called out in the plans to fully balance the standard ailerons (within 1/2" of level at the trailing edges) while the more massive acro ailerons do not require full balancing other than being consistent with the left and right’s imbalance? I’m glad this topic came up now as I’ve built my wing boxes for the acro aileron option but, as I get ready to make control surfaces, I’d like to pause to understand the rationale on the balancing.
Thanks,
Paul
I can’t speak to the engineering logic, but the plans call for it and I confirmed with Kerry (after sending my pics to them) via email that it was the way Sonex wanted it.