about that paperwork
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:43 pm
by Area 51%
Trying to get a grip on the “paper” shuffle.
Our EAA registration package is more than 4 years old, so most of the FAA forms are outdated. No real tragedy, downloaded the current revisions. That package also seems to indicate that all forms are to be put in an envelope and sent to the proper authorities.
Have recently heard/read that the FAA no longer wants hard copies sent in, but instead want’s it all to be submitted electronically. Placed a call to the FSDO last week, but have not heard back as yet.
We’re ready to weigh the plane and submit the forms, but really unsure how.
Billy…which direction did you take?
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:16 pm
by Rofomoto
I sent in the registration form and affidavit form(notarized) to Oklahoma today. Oh and 5 bucks for the N number
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:45 am
by Sonerai13
Area 51% wrote:Our EAA registration package is more than 4 years old, so most of the FAA forms are outdated. No real tragedy, downloaded the current revisions. That package also seems to indicate that all forms are to be put in an envelope and sent to the proper authorities.
Have recently heard/read that the FAA no longer wants hard copies sent in, but instead want’s it all to be submitted electronically. Placed a call to the FSDO last week, but have not heard back as yet.
The FAA now has an online system for submitting an airworthiness application. It’s called “AWC” and is the typical FAA way to “simplify” things. (That was sarcastic, by the way). You will still need the paper forms, but you will have to scan them and upload them through the AWC system (except the 8130-6, which you will fill out through the AWC system itself).
I did a webinar on the new system which can be viewed at the following link:
https://www.eaa.org/videos/6160355187001
Watch it a couple of time and then let me know if you have any questions. You can reach me via email at jnorris@eaa.org, or by phone at 920-426-6145.
Good luck!!
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:25 am
by Rofomoto
Great help …thanx billy
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:48 pm
by Area 51%
Thanks Joe.
I was hoping “luck” wasn’t going to play a part in this process.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:11 pm
by Sonerai13
Area 51% wrote:Thanks Joe.
I was hoping “luck” wasn’t going to play a part in this process.
If it’s any consolation, the AWC system is just as much a PITA on the designee side as it is on the applicant side! 
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:56 pm
by Area 51%
OK…we’re trying to send the “goods” to the FAA on line, but they are asking questions like; do you want a designee or ODA? What the heck is an ODA? Or designee for that matter. Then there are several DAR choices, like DARF or DART.
Thought we had that sorted out and it’s now asking for the name of the DAR we want to use. Haven’t researched any of those yet, so I hate to pick one that lives 2,000 miles away and have to pay for his/her shipping. Any idea why we have to choose one before the paperwork clears the government?
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:41 am
by Sonerai13
Area 51% wrote:OK…we’re trying to send the “goods” to the FAA on line, but they are asking questions like; do you want a designee or ODA? What the heck is an ODA? Or designee for that matter. Then there are several DAR choices, like DARF or DART.
Thought we had that sorted out and it’s now asking for the name of the DAR we want to use. Haven’t researched any of those yet, so I hate to pick one that lives 2,000 miles away and have to pay for his/her shipping. Any idea why we have to choose one before the paperwork clears the government?
First, and ODA is an Organizational Designee Authority. You won’t use one of those for an amateur-built certification. You have to remember that the AWC system is set up to handle ALL types of airworthiness application, so you will see a lot of stuff on there that doesn’t apply.
If you don’t know a DAR in your area, then just don’t choose the option of selecting one. If you choose “none” then the FAA office you select will assign someone.
A DAR-F is a manufacturing DAR, which means they are working through a MIDO. A DAR-T is a maintenance DAR, which means they are working through a FSDO. Again, if you don’t choose a DAR and instead select the FAA office nearest you, This -T or -F stuff won’t matter to you.
I would suggest that you work with the MIDO if possible, but if you are familiar with and comfortable with your area FSDO then that is an option as well.
Go back and watch the tutorial webinar I posted the link to in a previous post and you will have most of your questions answered. If you are still having issues, just email or call me and I’ll try to help you out. My contact info is in the same message as the link to the webinar.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:12 am
by Area 51%
Apparently, some time ago (2017ish) the wording was changed on the passenger warning label. It eliminates the wording “amateur built”. Do I need to get a “current” sticker since the one that came in the EAA package is old enough to still have “amateur built” in it’s verbiage?
Here’s another rub…ACS sells what they call the “current” sticker, eliminating the “amateur built” wording. However, the sticker reads “federal safety requirements” and the FAA wording is “federal safety regulations”.
Judges?
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:57 pm
by Area 51%
What are the actual dimensions of the Airworthiness Certificate? Document holders appear to come in all different sizes.
Or doesn’t it matter if you fold the certificate in half?
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:01 pm
by Sonerai13
Area 51% wrote:Apparently, some time ago (2017ish) the wording was changed on the passenger warning label. It eliminates the wording “amateur built”. Do I need to get a “current” sticker since the one that came in the EAA package is old enough to still have “amateur built” in it’s verbiage?
Here’s another rub…ACS sells what they call the “current” sticker, eliminating the “amateur built” wording. However, the sticker reads “federal safety requirements” and the FAA wording is “federal safety regulations”.
This is one where you will have to check with the FAA office or inspector who will do your inspection. Our office is accepting the earlier passenger warning placards, but I have heard that some offices are not. Best to check and make sure.
I would definitely NOT use the one from ACS if it does not contain the proper verbiage.
You can get the new one from EAA as a separate item as well as in the EAA’s current certification kit. Give EAA a call if you want to get the new one.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:08 pm
by Sonerai13
Area 51% wrote:What are the actual dimensions of the Airworthiness Certificate? Document holders appear to come in all different sizes.
Or doesn’t it matter if you fold the certificate in half?
You are supposed to display the airworthiness certificate in view of the “passengers or crew”. I would not recommend folding it in half as some FAA inspectors may take issue in the fact that the entire certificate is not visible.
New airworthiness certificates are issued on 8.5x11 paper combined with the operating limitations. The part that needs to be displayed takes up about the upper third of the first page. The actual dimension of the displayed part is 3x5.5. So if you do some creative folding you can use a document holder of that size. (NOTE: it will be THICK if you fold it down to that dimension.)
There are some inspectors who are still issuing the old pink airworthiness certificates along with attached operating limitations. Those certificates are approximately the same size as noted above, and can be displayed individually. However, the operating limitations document must still be carried in the aircraft.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:32 pm
by Area 51%
Ordered the passenger warning placard from ACS is spite of how it read on their site. Actually ordered two different ones. One (red and white vinyl sticker) that had the wrong word (requirements instead of regulations) and one (aluminum with adhesive) that still had amateur built in the wording.
They came in the mail today, and both have the correct wording. Sent a query to ACS and they responded they know the pictures are wrong, but haven’t gotten around to changing them yet.
Order with confidence.
Not much left to do except “kick the tires and light the fire” here @Area 51%.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:16 pm
by Rofomoto
Just finally got my registration back… they spelled my name wrong!
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:26 pm
by Area 51%
It’s probably going to be easier if you just change your name.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:36 pm
by Rofomoto
Lol probably
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:16 pm
by Area 51%
Thanks Joe.
Got the Airworthiness Certificate yesterday morning. Not really hard to play the game once you know the rules.
Nothing left to do here except grow a pair.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:19 am
by Rofomoto
Area 51% wrote:Thanks Joe.
Got the Airworthiness Certificate yesterday morning. Not really hard to play the game once you know the rules.
Nothing left to do here except grow a pair,
Great job Randy. I hope mine is approved today!! Light at the end of the tunnel of My longassproject!!
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:22 am
by Area 51%
Got your next project lined up yet?
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:13 am
by Rofomoto
Area 51% wrote:Got your next project lined up yet?
Yep Peitenpul!
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:20 am
by RCfly46
Good luck Billy!
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:46 am
by Area 51%
I’ve got a set of Legal Eagle prints staring at me. The rivet gun is all worn out. It’s time to give welding and fabric a try.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:21 am
by WesRagle
Rofomoto wrote:
Area 51% wrote:Got your next project lined up yet?
Yep Peitenpul!
Hey Billy,
Need a doner?
Got a GN-1 that might need a new home. Texas is not that much farther that Florida
Wes
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:24 am
by WesRagle
Area 51% wrote:I’ve got a set of Legal Eagle prints staring at me. The rivet gun is all worn out. It’s time to give welding and fabric a try.
Hey Randy,
How are the plans? I’ve thought about a Legal Eagle. Might get a welder next Christmas and see if I can get the hang of it
Wes
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:05 pm
by Rofomoto
I passed. All legal. Time to grow some…
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:12 pm
by Area 51%
They seem to be detailed enough, but there will be a learning curve. The videos that are available are somewhat grainy, and packed with boredom, but answer a lot of questions if you don’t fall asleep while watching.
I have a set of “Breezy” plans I purchased many years ago. I compare them to the “Sonex engine baffle” instructions. The Legal Eagle’s are much easier to follow.
Two hangar doors down, a former Sonex builder has a set of “Eagle” wings and ailerons hanging on the wall. I will be picking his brain if/when the time comes.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:15 pm
by Area 51%
Rofomoto wrote:I passed. All legal. Time to grow some…
That’s what I’m talking about. Two newly commissioned Sonex/Waiex airframes in two days. Take that RVs.
Re: about that paperwork
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:17 pm
by WesRagle
Rofomoto wrote:I passed. All legal. Time to grow some…
Congrats!!
That’s two “Locked and Loaded”!!
Y’all have fun!!
Area 51% wrote:The Legal Eagle’s are much easier to follow.
Excellent!! Need something to keep me busy.
Wes