Xenos 59 Electric Build

ArchiveBot · April 5, 2020, 5:00am

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:41 am

by Xenos 59

Hello Everyone! I didn’t want to post anything until I had made some substantial progress. Today I achieved the milestone of getting the new motor mount, motor, battery, and controller test fit to the front of my Xenos!

This is using an upgraded version of the Zero Motorcycles drive conversion I have on my Electric Ultralight, the E-Gull.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zLX … sp=sharing

I’ll be sharing more details as I go, let me know if you have any specific questions!

Write-up of Electric Xenos (WIP)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Xo … sp=sharing

Album of Electric Xenos photos
https://photos.app.goo.gl/DK2adzkvmgLs7TKx8

Podcast with lots of info
http://www.sonexflight.com/71/

FAQ:
How long does it fly?
About an hour

How far does it fly?
About 70miles

How high can it climb?
About 10,000ft

How much does it weigh?
830lbs empty. About the same as the gas version with a 1/2 tank of gas.

How do I build one?
Reach out to me directly (only if you’re serious please…)

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:44 am

by 13brv3

Always great to see electric projects, since I’d like to try it some day myself. Sounds like you have plenty of experience already. I’ll definitely be following your progress.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:29 am

by N111YX

Thanks for sharing. I’m really looking forward to watching your progress!

I’ve been close to buying a Zero (for riding) in the past but when their motor system is an adequate replacement for the Rotax 503 in my Kolb, I just may need to find a “donor”.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:30 pm

by racaldwell

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. Keep on keeping us informed.

Are the batteries that large black box inside the engine mount?

What is the weight & hp of the system?

Must be nice not having the forward fuselage filled up with a fuel tank.

Rick Caldwell
Xenos 0057

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:47 pm

by Bryan Cotton

Very cool! Where I work they are building a lab for developing electric hybrid aircraft, but on a larger scale. Keep us posted and good luck!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:19 am

by Matt541

Great stuff, cool to see more people using it. The battery technology is quickly improving. Nice vids with the E-Gull too.

I’ve been waiting for more improvements before going the electric dirt bike route, but they are pretty good now. The Zero FX does has my eye…

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:24 pm

by Carlos Trigo

Curiously enough, I was about to post here asking if someone had already gone the electric power route in a XENOS or in any other Sonex…
So now I know the answer to question!

When I started building my XENOS I already had made my mind to put an electric motor in it.
Therefore, XENOS 59 please keep us posted about your electric powering venture, better yet with pictures of your installation.

Keep up that good work
Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:50 pm

by Xenos 59

It’s alive!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_I5xnIPt9c

can’t figure out to how to imbed youtube video in here…

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:28 am

by bvolcko38

Looking good.
My other toy is a Quad City Challenger II with a 503 Rotax and a belt drive reduction. It uses a 50mm GT3 cog belt which is more than adequate for 54 hp.
Your belt looks a little smallish for 80hp equivalent. jmho

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

by Bryan Cotton

Cool! Here is the video embedded.

There are two buttons in the edit bar, youtu_be and youtube. Pick the one that looks like your link.

The belt looks small, I agree. But the peak and average torque of an electric motor are about the same. On a two stroke all the torque is jammed onto 30, maybe 40 degrees of crankshaft rotation for a given cylinder. For a parallel twin let’s estimate the peak torque as 360/70 ~ 5x peak to nominal torque.

I don’t know how the two reduction ratios compare, so that also affects torque.

We learned this peak torque lesson the hard way at Sikorsky years ago. A first generation UAV we built and flew had a 50 HP Wankel rotary. Generation 2 had two 25 HP, 2-cylinder opposed two strokes. Parts that were twice as strong as required for the Wankel were half as strong as required for one of the opposed twins. The Wankel is as close as you get to electric in a recip.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:08 pm

by Xenos 59

FYI I started Zero Motorcycles and ran R&D there for 7 years so I might have a little experience with these drive systems ;p

To be clear, this is the exact same belt model (Gates GT Carbon 8mm pitch) that the Zero Motorcycle uses with this exact same drivetrain. Additionally we actually made it 50% wider (21mm vs 14mm), because everyone thinks it looks too skinny. If the “skinny” 14mm belt can survive 20,000 miles of beating and banging in a motorcycle, it should be an easy life for it in an aircraft where the loads are much more consistent, and it’s not eating rocks and dirt all the time. We also use a larger tooth count drive sprocket which gives a lot more wrap and tooth engagement, all of which combined makes the belt life a complete non-issue. There are over a dozen flying E-Gull’s, using a smaller driver sprocket and the 14mm wide belt, and they have experienced no issues so far, with many, including mine, having more than several hundred hours of operation. I’ll take empirical evidence over “eyeball” engineering any day

Additionally this design was validated using gates design documentation and software. I welcome and invite anyone’s input.

https://assets.gates.com/content/dam/ga … 5_2011.pdf
https://www.gates.com/us/en/knowledge-c … tware.html

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:57 pm

by Bryan Cotton

I’ll take empirical evidence over “eyeball” engineering any day

Amen Brother! Sounds like you have some cool and relevant experience.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:47 pm

by Xenos 59

Bryan Cotton wrote:

I’ll take empirical evidence over “eyeball” engineering any day

Amen Brother! Sounds like you have some cool and relevant experience.

Sound like you do as well! Is that a Sikorsky Cypher pic as your avatar?

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:09 pm

by Bryan Cotton

It is! That was the Wankel powered UAV. The follow on had those horrible two-strokes.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:55 pm

by Xenos 59

My recent podcast. May answer some questions.

http://www.sonexflight.com/71/index.html

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:12 pm

by WesRagle

This is very cool stuff. Motor gliders and very light aircraft are obviously the best way to exploit the current state of technology, but …

A while back I was day dreaming about going faster and further with electric power and thinking about what might be a good (existing) air-frame to convert. I don’t know much about the airframe, but this is what I came up with, the mini-imp C model.

Ref: https://www.mini-imp.com/

Admittedly you’re back to a selfish single place, but the airframe does seem about perfect for a fast electric airplane. The advertised glide ratio is 20:1 @ 90 MPH and the C model is designed to carry a heavier engine. The engine, fuel, pilot, and baggage are all relatively close to the center of lift. They talk about incorporating drop tanks to extend the range (which sounds perfect for added capacity in a distributed form). I assume the big concern about torsional resonance could be at least lessened with an electric motor.

I don’t know, but from the perspective of a day dreamer it seemed like it would be a fun project.

Wes

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:40 pm

by Xenos 59

That things pretty slick! I also really like the Sonerai and the Moni. But if money was no object, I’d get a goshawk, or an Onix. Or maybe a Risen… or…

https://www.windward-performance.com/gosHawk.html
https://www.pure-flight.eu/
http://www.flyrisen.com/indexEn.html

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:50 pm

by WaiexN143NM

hi gabe,
this is way cool! all of us were watching, went to the oshkosh forums on electric power and flight, and specifically
the sonex forums on the electric waiex.
I’ve been watching the e gull , mark b. ‘s design, . way cool. he seems to indicate at fly in interviews that he went to the zero factory and bought the motors? . will zero sell just the needed parts? or do you need to buy a ‘donor’ bike?
your package for the xenos is a 40kw/ 55 hp? im interested in the new 82kw/110 hp unit. for a waiex.
the area where the fuel tank used to be, maybe use that for more battery capacity?
Keep us up to date on your progress. I’m interested in any parts u may offer.
Are u based out of watsonville? KWVI. Look for robert s. ‘the frisco’ on here i helped locate a good buy of a jab tri gear sonex out of henderson nv. it should be parked out on the ramp at wvi.
keep up the good work.
Would love to come down some day from sf to see your project when this pandemic is over.
thanks to jeff for the podcasts.
also we need to petition the faa to include electric power for lsa. they said power needed to be recip for lsa, i believe to keep turbine power out.
WaiexN143NM
Michael

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:20 pm

by Xenos 59

Hi Michael, thanks for the tip with “The Frisco”, I’d really love to have a look at a complete Sonex as I build mine.

When I ran R&D for Zero, I sold Mark B. the one and only powertrain Zero aver sold for aviation. Then the lawyers found out, and now they will have nothing to do with it. You have to buy a donor bike.
My package for the Zenos is from a Zero Motorcycles 14.4 SR. It has 60kw/80hp! More than the aerovee it replaced.
The 82kW system would be amazing in a waiex, just a little electric rocket-ship. I’d love to help on a project like that.

Come down any time you like!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:31 am

by Xenos 59

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:24 am

by Carlos Trigo

Hello Gabe

I do have some questions about your Electric Xenos project:

did you build your own motor mount, or did you modify one of the engine mounts sold by Sonex?
if it was the latter, which engine mount you modified?
what’s the total weight of the firewall forward electric package (motor, battery, controllers, cables)?
did you use the fuel tank space? For what?
is it easy to find the donor motor?
and the battery?
how do you get the 12V power for the instruments and lights?
which propeller are you going to use? (Foldable would be nice … )

Most probably I will have more questions, but that’s it for now?

Thanks in advance for your answers
Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:09 am

by Xenos 59

Carlos Trigo wrote:Hello Gabe

I do have some questions about your Electric Xenos project:

did you build your own motor mount, or did you modify one of the engine mounts sold by Sonex?

if it was the latter, which engine mount you modified?

what’s the total weight of the firewall forward electric package (motor, battery, controllers, cables)?

did you use the fuel tank space? For what?

is it easy to find the donor motor?

and the battery?

how do you get the 12V power for the instruments and lights?

which propeller are you going to use? (Foldable would be nice … )

Most probably I will have more questions, but that’s it for now?

Thanks in advance for your answers
Carlos

Take a listen to the podcast, I think it answers most of your questions.

http://www.sonexflight.com/71/index.html

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 11:06 am

by Xenos 59

My Xenos came with this hand throttle lever and brake setup. But no additional fittings or anything to make the connections. Does any have any further information on what I need to complete this assembly?

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:43 pm

by Matt541

You should be able to use this tubing kit available form O’Keefe. (Middle of the page.)

http://www.okeefeaero.com/-hydraulic-brakes.html

Surely there’s other options out there for the same tubing. Could also buy 3/16" tubing, fittings, and a flaring tool separately as well.

That looks a lot like the Hegar master cylinder I have on my stick. Fairly certain the fittings on the O’Keefe and AerConversion brakes are the same size.

**Side note, I recently went through and added a larger diameter plastic tubing over multiple wear and chaffing points. The bottom of my engine mount, where the previous owner ran the tubing, was pretty sharp.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:50 pm

by Xenos 59

Thanks! That sure looks like my brake handle!

I do have a some of the 3/16" nylon brake tubing, so I think I just need a 90 elbow and a t-fitting to make it all work. I can’t find a thread spec for the compression fittings, but I think these will work?

Hose
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ … ube316.php
or
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ … laflow.php

Elbow
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/lg … -05525.php

T-Fitting
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/lg … -06175.php

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:12 pm

by XenosN42

Hi,

I have that exact brake setup on my OneX. Brake handle from O’Keefe and brakes from Sonex (AeroConversions). Best modification I have made.

Matt is correct the ‘Tube & Hardware Kit’ from O’Keefe is what you need. Two sets. You won’t need any special flairing or compression tools.

Check to see if the brake handle mount fits snugly on the Xenos control stick after you’ve tightened the set screws. On my plane the control stick diameter was just a bit less than what the O’Keefe brake handle required (approx 1/16" less). I was lucky that I found a bushing the correct size in my work shop. Can’t remember where or why I bought it. I have extra. If you need it just direct message me and I’ll mail it to you.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 5:03 pm

by Xenos 59

I assume I’ll still need a splitter of some sort from the brake handle master cylinder?

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:53 pm

by rmtrudeau

Michael,

Did not having differential brakes ever hurt you on making tight radius turns in the Xenos? I would rather keep it as simple as possible for obvious reasons. Thoughts? Things you would have changed?

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:07 pm

by Xenos 59

Can any Xenos owners provide me with the following data? I will use this data to correlate to my own, and make sure I am running the correct drive reduction ratio and such. I will share my test data.

Engine and Propeller type/size:

Max Prop RPM on ground
Max Prop RPM and airspeed in level flight
Prop RPM and airspeed during full power climb
Prop RPM and airspeed during cruise climb
Prop RPM and airspeed during normal cruise
Prop RPM and airspeed during slow cruise

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 11:13 pm

by Xenos 59

Any Xenos folks willing to share their POH? Iam interested in Speeds and Rates of climb/decent, etc…

ArchiveBot · April 5, 2020, 5:01am

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 10:52 pm

by Xenos 59

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 9:06 am

by sonex892.

You are close. Use the next button. youtu_be

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:48 pm

by Sonex1517

Love it!

Awesome Gabe!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 4:00 pm

by rmtrudeau

I cannot was to see this thing fly!!! Awesome work!!!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 5:31 pm

by Xenos 59

sonex 892, It still doesn’t work, lol…

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 7:02 pm

by sonex892.

Hi Gabe, your link looks a bit different. Try right clicking on the video and select (copy video URL) https://youtu.be/eAdoFVu4bdo

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 8:58 pm

by Xenos 59

sonex892. wrote:Hi Gabe, your link looks a bit different. Try right clicking on the video and select (copy video URL) https://youtu.be/eAdoFVu4bdo

normal youtube link seems broken but your way works! thanks!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 11:21 pm

by Xenos 59

also got my FAA registration. N540EV, which means my 3 letter callsign is Zero Echo Victor

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 9:32 am

by Carlos Trigo

Hi Gabe

Do you already have any website about the electric motorization of aircraft?

Thanks
Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:11 am

by Xenos 59

Carlos Trigo wrote:Hi Gabe

Do you already have any website about the electric motorization of aircraft?

Thanks
Carlos

This is it!

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:07 am

by Carlos Trigo

Xenos 59 wrote:

Carlos Trigo wrote:Hi Gabe

Do you already have any website about the electric motorization of aircraft?

Thanks
Carlos

This is it!

Gabe

I meant an website of your own, where anyone can see what do you propose to put on the market, which parts and an idea of prices, and your best guess of availability

Regards
Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:05 pm

by Xenos 59

I’m not one to market stuff until it’s well and truly ready. I have been helping a few folks with systems on the side already, so if you have a specific need or application in mind I have some materials, including pricing, I can provide you.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:30 pm

by Xenos 59

Have made some progress on the dash and wiring. Hoping to button that up this weekend! Then it’s onto canopy and cowling. Then final assembly! I have some friends helping over the next week or two for physical and emotional support to get me over the hump I am hoping she’s ready for inspection in something like a month!

Last week did an initial weight and balance and trial fit of the wings. They don’t go on that easy…

All up, ready to fly is about 800lbs. And CG actually came out just about as perfect as it could be. Just about dead center in the cg-range with a light pilot, and near the rear with 400lbs of people in the seats. Even with the super overbuilt motor mount and heavy battery, it’s basically a perfect 1-1 swap. Amazing…

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:41 am

by Carlos Trigo

Xenos 59 wrote:I’m not one to market stuff until it’s well and truly ready. I have been helping a few folks with systems on the side already, so if you have a specific need or application in mind I have some materials, including pricing, I can provide you.

Enviado do meu iPhone usando o Tapatalk

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:13 am

by Xenos 59

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKpgxAxw-cs[/youtube]

grrr, I can never get the embedded video to work. Here’s a link to the static testing I’ve been doing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKpgxAxw-cs

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:49 am

by sonex892.

Hi Gabe. Use the you_tube button with the underscore. This is the link that I used. https://youtu.be/bKpgxAxw-cs

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:53 pm

by N111YX

Has Lonnie carved you out a special “electric” propeller? I’m asking out of curiosity.

Thanks!

Kip

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:47 am

by Xenos 59

Lonnie did reach out to me but I wanted to get some “baseline” testing with this prop before trying anything else.

Canopy 90% complete. Final assembly (I hope) begins tomorrow with wings going on.

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:43 am

by Carlos Trigo

The ideal propeller for an electric XENOS would definitely be a foldable one.
Better yet, an electric folding prop…

Flame suit on…

Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:15 am

by Xenos 59

Got airworthiness, commencing ground testing, and she’s ready to fly!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:18 am

by Sonex1517

Congratulations Gabe! Looking forward to hearing the first flight report.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:07 am

by bvolcko38

That’s great!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:14 am

by Xenos 59

It flies! 40 minutes, 40 miles, 40% battery remaining. Lots of testing, tweaking, and improvements to go. With a planned battery upgrade, duration will be about 1.5 hours and range will be 100 miles!

Videos uploading on my youtube now…

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:59 am

by Sonex1517

Congratulations! This is fantastic!

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:04 am

by Carlos Trigo

Xenos 59 wrote:

Sonex Maiden Takeoff (2).png

It flies! 40 minutes, 40 miles, 40% battery remaining. Lots of testing, tweaking, and improvements to go. With a planned battery upgrade, duration will be about 1.5 hours and range will be 100 miles!

Videos uploading on my youtube now…

That will be a very good endurance !

What is that screen mounted over the dashboard?
Is it the motor+battery monitoring screen you adapted from the Zero motorcycle?

Thanks
Carlos

ArchiveBot · April 5, 2020, 5:02am

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:54 pm

by Carlos Trigo

Thank you Gabe

These pictures are indeed more and useful information.

Now, beyond the (very important) flight tests you’ll be doing in the next days (and weeks ?), the most important would be to know what you will be offering.
A total plug & play package, or only a package which will include the parts not coming from the Zero motorcycle (the motor mount, the prop adapter, etc.).
Or neither of the above, and you will only be selling plans?

Best
Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:54 am

by Xenos 59

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:49 pm

by Carlos Trigo

Gabe

Seeing the short videos of your 3rd flight, especially the landing, I have a question:

does this electric motor system you are using have like an “idle” position of the throttle, keeping the prop turning?
or when you pull the throttle full back, the motor and the prop just stop to turn?

Thanks
Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:24 pm

by Xenos 59

Well I finally solo’d my own plane

She flies great! It was almost 100f outside but I figured it would be a good test for the recently improved cooling system on the plane. And it works great! Plenty of power and she runs nice and cool at medium power levels. Really floated my landing in and dropped it full stall fro a couple feet but that landing gear just soaked it up nice and smooth. I’ll get better with more practice, I look forward to racking up the hours. It’s basically free to fly at this point, all the investment has been made, now the more I fly the cheaper per hour it gets

The windmilling prop is me trying various levels of regen and controller programming features. It can be programmed to stop “almost” completely. I’ll keep flying and testing and provide a more comprehensive overview when I can.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:23 pm

by NWade

Congrats on moving the state of the art forward for small kit aircraft!

—Noel

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:21 pm

by SP1

This is the epitome of cool! I really liked the thermal images in the google photos.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:03 pm

by Xenos 59

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:25 pm

by Carlos Trigo

Xenos 59 wrote:

Hi Gabe

In these video, are you soaring, with the motor stopped and the prop windmilling?

Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:03 pm

by Xenos 59

Yes I have programmed enough regen braking to slow the prop to about 100rpm. The controller doesn’t like to bring the prop to a complete stop, so I have to find a minimum rpm where everything is still happy. I’m confident I can get it slower.

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:06 pm

by Carlos Trigo

Xenos 59 wrote:Yes I have programmed enough regen braking to slow the prop to about 100rpm. The controller doesn’t like to bring the prop to a complete stop, so I have to find a minimum rpm where everything is still happy. I’m confident I can get it slower.

Can you please explain what is “regen braking”?

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:13 pm

by Xenos 59

Regenerative braking is a feature of essentially all electric vehicles where you are able to capture the energy from the wheels (or prop) and push it back into the battery. Google will probably explain it better…

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:32 pm

by Carlos Trigo

Xenos 59 wrote:Regenerative braking is a feature of essentially all electric vehicles where you are able to capture the energy from the wheels (or prop) and push it back into the battery. Google will probably explain it better…

Thank you Gabe

So it’s not possible for the prop to stop completely, and use for example a foldable prop?

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:44 pm

by mike.smith

This is such a cool project! The epitome of “experimental” aircraft! So many airplanes are now such refined kits, that they hardly seem experimental, and certainly not cutting edge. This is BOTH! Nice job!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:47 am

by Xenos 59

Carlos Trigo wrote:So it’s not possible for the prop to stop completely, and use for example a foldable prop?

It is possible, but since this prop does not fold, it always provides some torque in the system which keep’s it spinning slowly. If it folded it would no longer be providing that torque. To hold a non-feathering or non-folding prop stationary actually requires power or a mechanical brake. I am looking to add a mechanical brake in future versions.

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:05 am

by Carlos Trigo

Xenos 59 wrote:

Carlos Trigo wrote:So it’s not possible for the prop to stop completely, and use for example a foldable prop?

It is possible, but since this prop does not fold, it always provides some torque in the system which keep’s it spinning slowly. If it folded it would no longer be providing that torque. To hold a non-feathering or non-folding prop stationary actually requires power or a mechanical brake. I am looking to add a mechanical brake in future versions.

Thanks a lot Gabe

That’s good news.
I’m looking forward for you to give us the way to copy your system in our aircraft.

Thanks
Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:54 pm

by Xenos 59

I am revising the design of the “re-drive” to allow for off-the-shelf sprockets and a wider range of gearing options. After that I will be offering them for sale. If you are genuinely interested, let me know. Still flying her every chance I get and it just keeps getting better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US6_4W9lPio

Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:14 pm

by Carlos Trigo

Xenos 59 wrote:I am revising the design of the “re-drive” to allow for off-the-shelf sprockets and a wider range of gearing options. After that I will be offering them for sale. If you are genuinely interested, let me know. Still flying her every chance I get and it just keeps getting better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US6_4W9lPio

Hi Gabe

I am genuinely interested, but before buying it I need to know information about the whole solution.
I mean, for example:

a list of all the parts to be bought (motor, batteries, cables, controllers and so on), and exact reference (from which bike, which characteristics);
a list of all other necessary parts (gear drive, prop plate, type of propeller);
schematic drawings (mechanical and electrical) of all the installation;
schematic drawing for the modification of the engine mount;
some kind of installation manual of all the propulsion system;

Will you be providing all this?

Thanks
Carlos

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:39 pm

by Xenos 59

I will not be offering a complete guide. I will be offering the “re-drive” which incudes the welded assembly, a hand throttle, and all the bearings, sprockets, and belts required.

The re-drive kit, plus a Zero Motorcycle, plus a propeller will yield a functional drive unit.

I will happily share my motor/battery mount design, but I will not be making them or guarantee it is fit for purpose…

Anybody entertaining the notion of building this “more experimental than most” electric system must be willing and able to fully understand, engineer, and fabricate any/all of the system, and accept full responsibility for it’s safety and function.

I am happy to provide details and pictures of my system, as I have done, but I will only be helping those who would do this themselves anyways, and just want to go down a proven (somewhat) path. If you are looking for a fully documented, turn-key system, with support, etc… I’m just not in a position to provide that now.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:00 am

by ASDomenighi

Hi Gabe, great work,
I did some research on a Zero donor and I create a table of the Zero Bike LineUp per year and motor specs and controller available for each motorcycle. I believe this can be a good resource for people looking for donors bikes:

https://ibb.co/xLpVxPc

In the past you wrote that you are planning to install a 7.2 Kwh Zero pack to increase endurance time, do you have any idea when you will start to work on it ?
Does anyone had thought on the possibility to install battery pack in the front and another one behind the cockpit ??

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:36 am

by Xenos 59

The 2nd battery will be a 3.6kwh “power tank”. It will be fitted under the glare shield where the fuel tank used to be. Originally I thought it would go behind the seat but that would put the cg too far back.

The extra battery will be integrated along with a complete dash rebuild sometime this winter. Having too much fun flying while the weather is good

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:14 am

by Xenos 59

Bob flew the Xenos over 2 hours and covered 130 miles and landed with ~1/2 battery today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RXVSk-B-MY

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:53 am

by Matt541

Too cool Gabe!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:48 am

by XenosN42

Wish I could fly over that landscape. Nothing but mountains, trees around here.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:18 am

by Xenos 59

I cannot recommend a Zero powered Xenos enough

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:59 am

by ASDomenighi

Gabe, how are the flight testing going. Is been great watching your flights on you tube. Do you have already some numbers on how many kWh takes to fly to 2,000 or 8,000 feet and how many kWh to maintain level flight ?

Again congratulations on the progress, and with the new site http://flitllc.com/

Thanks,

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:29 am

by Xenos 59

It’s pretty close to 10% battery per 1000’ of climb. It’s about 9kW for level cruise at 60mph IAS.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:15 pm

by ASDomenighi

Gabe, thanks for the info, this is very good, if I remember correctly on your e-ultralight you were cruising at 8kW, just 1 kW more for the Xenos is good !!
On the DEAN SIGLER Blog I read that you are working on the Michael Friend’s Spark Solo with 2 Zero 14.4 kW batteries, will be nice if we can come up with the possibility to install 2 14.4 kW on the Xenos too. Do you think that this is possible ?

Great work is always very good to know the progress that you are bringing for a practical electrical implementation on the experimental aircraft !

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:36 pm

by Xenos 59

Yes it is possible to use two 14.4 batteries. But for gross weight and CG reasons it would have to go in the passenger seat. I am considering adding the modification later to enable long range solo flights. This would increase the range and duration to about 150 miles and 2.5 hours. Right now I am adding an extra 3.6 battery which will still work with CG and weight limits including about 450lbs useful load! This will bring the range and duration to about 100 miles and 1.5 hours.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:45 pm

by Xenos 59

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:42 pm

by Xenos 59

My Zaero Re-Drive kit is now available for purchase!

https://flitllc.com/

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:40 pm

by jasondepew

Carlos Trigo wrote:

Xenos 59 wrote:Regenerative braking is a feature of essentially all electric vehicles where you are able to capture the energy from the wheels (or prop) and push it back into the battery. Google will probably explain it better…

Thank you Gabe

So it’s not possible for the prop to stop completely, and use for example a foldable prop?

There are definitely foldable prop options. Carat and Stemme have two interesting ones. They add complexity and cost, and it seems like a mechanical brake would be easier to implement (most helicopters have such brakes.)

However, the regenerative capability is one of the coolest parts of an electronic aircraft. If you can find lift that will impart energy to your aircraft, you can thermal or cruise in it and instead of using it to gain altitude or speed, use it to recharge your batteries in flight. In theory, you could significantly extend your flight time and land with the equivalent of a full tank of gas. Greg Cole has some YouTube videos and documents on his website discussing this. It’s something I hope to explore when I build an electric Xenos myself.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:00 am

by taildragger

Could direct-drive be attempted? A few questions?

Is the Zero motor torque curve acceptable at 3000 RPM?
Is there enough koror cooling at 3000 RPM?

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:07 pm

by jerryhain

They’re having a Pulitzer Prize Electric aircraft race from Omaha to near Kitty Hawk in May next year. Think you should add batteries into the passenger seat and enter the race.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:23 am

by taildragger

I am building this because Xenos 59 blazed the trail. See my inspiration video at: https://youtu.be/V5xHZ03tBaU

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:05 pm

by GraemeSmith

Great to see Gabe getting a “Watts and Wings” column in Jan 2022 KITPLANES about Electric planes!

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:16 pm

by Xenos 59

Happy to report Xenos 59 is better than ever and keeps racking up those sweet electron powered flight hours.

Re: Xenos 59 Electric Build

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:22 pm

by Xenos 59

Still flying the Xenos every chance I get!