Which Propeller?
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:54 pm
by Blank
Hey all. I’m at the point in the build where I need to get a propeller ordered. I’ve got a legacy tail dragger sonex with a gen 2 jabiru 3300. I’m not too interested in waiting a year for the Prince P-Tip or the sensenich. Have any of you heard of the Bolly BOS5 ground adjustable three bladed propeller? It’s a bit pricey at $2389, but that includes a spinner, crush plate and associated mounting hardware for the jab 3300. Have any of you heard about this propeller’s performance?
Thanks.
Craig
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 8:13 am
by markschaible
Sensenich lead times are currently around 10 weeks
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 8:18 am
by GraemeSmith
56" on the BOSS
54" on the P tip.
Gonna lose an 1" of ground clearance in a wheel landing.
That’s the only thing I can think of!
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 9:24 am
by Scott Todd
This topic comes up fairly regular. If you have ever been to the Sonex facility, the decision should be easy for you. There are dozens of props hanging everywhere. When asked why all the props, Jeremy said it was all the ones they had tested thru the years 
They will gladly tell you what has worked best for their airplane/engine combos. Then you just have to decide on color 
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 4:13 pm
by Blank
Thanks all! Decisions, decisions…
Craig
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Fri May 20, 2022 9:27 am
I received my sensenich prop for standard aerovee today 38 days after ordering including a special color. At the time of order I was quoted a 4-6 week delivery.
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Sat May 21, 2022 10:42 pm
by mike.smith
I originally had the ground adjustable Sensenich, and was extremely disappointed with its performance and it’s poor use of extremely strippable hex bolts. I had a fixed pitch Sensenich (the one recommended by Sonex), but was disappointed by that one as well (better than the adjustable pitch, though). I went to the Prince P-Tip and have never looked back. My 2 cents.
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 7:40 am
by peter anson
Before buying the Bolly prop,check with Jabiru to see if they recommend it. Jabiru sell a ground adjustable composite prop which I think may even be made by Bolly, but it’s fibreglass rather than carbon fibre reinforced. Supposedly more flexible so behaves more like a wooden prop; easier on the crankshaft. I think the Bolly props work well with Rotax engines but my own experience with a Bolly Duralite prop, supposedly designed especially for the Jabiru engine was an expensive failure.
Peter
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 9:37 am
by Scott Todd
The Prince comes up fairly often. What makes it better? Can anyone post the head-to-head numbers from the same airplane for the same loading and conditions? Has Sonex tested it? What is their input? I don’t think Sonex cares what brand people use but they probably want the best performance for their airplanes. These things usually puzzle me. If its better, why isn’t everyone running them? Has the word just not got out yet?
Saying one brand headset is better than another is just personal preference. Propellers can be quantified. What are the numbers?
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Sun May 22, 2022 1:24 pm
by daleandee
I’ve seen several comparisons between Sensenich & Price props. In the end most results that showed a small advantage one way or the other could be within the errors of the testing method used.
I’ve talked with Lonnie Prince. He is a smart man and a wonderful human being. When the American Sonex Association (thank you John Davis) was having their gatherings in Crossville Tn, Lonnie Prince would donate one of hos props to the Association to be raffled off.
But for me … I’ve been flying Sensenich props on both of the Sonex aircraft I have owned (over 15 years) and been extremely pleased with them. The Sensenich for my Corvair was recommended by the engine builder as that’s what he uses on his aircraft designs.
But we have the freedom to use what works for us on our experimental aircraft!
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Mon May 23, 2022 11:32 am
by N190YX
Has anyone considered or installed the Airmaster constant speed propeller? Which is available for the Jabiru 3300, Rotax and UL Power and others. I’m a long way from final engine and propeller decision (my kit has the motor mount for the Jabiru 3300) but for my flying mission, to continue to be able to formation fly with my formation buddies, a constant speed propeller would be ideal. see http://www.propellor.com
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Mon May 23, 2022 2:46 pm
by tx_swordguy
I use the prince p tip on my jabiru 3300 powered sonex. No real numbers for you just seat of the pants feel. The sensenich seemed to climb slightly faster. The prince might-(might) be 2 mph faster. What I do like better about the prince is it loads my jabiru up better and more consistent than the sensenich. What does that do for me? well it allows me to have better control of my engine temps. I was constantly trying to keep my EGT down on climb out and the prince helps a lot in that regard. Not sure if it is truly the prop itself or the prince may just be a hair more course in pitch and causes the jab to load up more. All I know is it takes slightly longer to get off the ground but I like my temps better. As for the constant speed mentioned, I have never seen this prop but am interested in it. Would think it is quite expensive though
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Mon May 23, 2022 5:33 pm
by racaldwell
Check that the polar moment of inertia of the Airmaster does not exceed the Jabiru limits.
You loose a lot of speed when the crank breaks and the prop is slung off to the horizon.
Rick Caldwell
Xenos 0057
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Mon May 23, 2022 8:25 pm
by mike.smith
Scott Todd wrote:The Prince comes up fairly often. What makes it better? Can anyone post the head-to-head numbers from the same airplane for the same loading and conditions? Has Sonex tested it? What is their input? I don’t think Sonex cares what brand people use but they probably want the best performance for their airplanes. These things usually puzzle me. If its better, why isn’t everyone running them? Has the word just not got out yet?
Saying one brand headset is better than another is just personal preference. Propellers can be quantified. What are the numbers?
I did testing with both props over a single weekend. I tried to display all my test numbers, but the forum format does not hold formatting, so there are no columns or spacing to make the numbers display properly. If anyone wants a Word doc of my tests, just PM me. All my numbers were in knots, for a normally aspirated AeroVee engine using 100LL.
In the tests, and in the 5 years or so since I changed to the Prince prop, the averages come out to a minimum 100 fpm increase in climb, and a cruise speed (at equivalent RPMs) of 5-10 kts, depending on weather conditions, over the fixed pitch Sensenich. I didn’t do any side by side testing in the winter, but in cold weather I get 1,000 fpm climb (sometimes more) with the Prince.
I have a hill and tall trees at my airport, so climb is most important to me. 100 fpm makes a difference. With the adjustable pitch Sensenich my climb was so anemic that on more than one occasion I thought for sure I was going into the trees. At best pitch for climb, I barely got 200 fpm in the summer, and sometimes saw a nearly 0 fpm climb after I got out of ground effect. I had enough of that and switched ASAP.
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:35 pm
by WilliamBatten
Grabbing this subject thread - has anyone tried a Catto prop with a Jabiru 3300? I know Ben in Australia installed one a few years back - any others?
If so, how do you like it?
Just placed my deposit on the 3300 - deliver in Mar 2023.
Bill
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:52 am
by WilliamBatten
Sounds like this is a no.
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:33 pm
by WilliamBatten
I’m building a Waiex taildragger with a Jabiru 3300.
I just talked to Lonnie at Prince Propeller. He is recommending the standard 54" dia. 60" pitch P-Tip. He told me that he has sold about 3 of these at a 62" pitch to Sonex builders with the Jabiru 3300.
Can one of you three comment on the performance?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
N67WX
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:23 pm
by builderflyer
WilliamBatten wrote:I’m building a Waiex taildragger with a Jabiru 3300.
I just talked to Lonnie at Prince Propeller. He is recommending the standard 54" dia. 60" pitch P-Tip. He told me that he has sold about 3 of these at a 62" pitch to Sonex builders with the Jabiru 3300.
Can one of you three comment on the performance?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
N67WX
Hi Bill, if you want to go with only one propeller, I would first suggest that you attempt to decide what will be your most common mission with your Waiex and the pick the propeller that best suits that mission. I began flying my Sonex with the Sensenich W54SK62 wood propeller which is great for “kick in the pants takeoffs” and climbouts. I then began searching for a propeller more suitable for longer cross country flying. I tried the composite coated Sensenich with more pitch, I believe 64". I then tried a Prince 54x60 P-Tip with a special airfoil, a Prince 54x60 P-Tip with the standard airfoil, a Prince 54x62 P-Tip with the standard airfoil, and a Prince 54 x 66 elliptical propeller.
I ended up keeping the elliptical propeller as it gave me a solid 5 mph more cruise speed at the same rpm as my original Sensenich propeller. The other Prince propellers I tested did not significantly outperform the original Sensenich propeller I already had to make them cost effective. As far as climb rate goes, when you’re already climbing at over 1,200 fpm at gross weight at sea level, a difference of plus or minus 100 or 200 fpm really doesn’t make much difference between propellers.
Since I’m not making any long distance flights these days, I’m currently flying behind the original Sensenich wood propeller which is really under pitched for the airframe. It will turn 150 rpm over red line in straight and level flight. But it is turbine smooth, and it’s so much fun. I have taken off behind a Bonanza and stayed right with it indicating 130 mph in the climb. I once took off behind a Mooney 201 and passed it up in the climb…I was also higher than it as I went by. Not bad for an aircraft that meets the light sport requirements. Of course, once leveling off in cruise, both those aircraft can’t be caught.
Lonnie Prince will send you any number of his propellers for testing if you just pay for shipping each one. Of course, you will have to begin by buying one of his propellers to start the process. At least that used to be his policy about 8 years ago. Good luck with your search. If you have any more specific questions, I’ll try to answer them.
Art,Sonex taildragger #95,Jabiru 3300 #261
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:35 am
by Skippydiesel
N190YX wrote:Has anyone considered or installed the Airmaster constant speed propeller? Which is available for the Jabiru 3300, Rotax and UL Power and others. I’m a long way from final engine and propeller decision (my kit has the motor mount for the Jabiru 3300) but for my flying mission, to continue to be able to formation fly with my formation buddies, a constant speed propeller would be ideal. see http://www.propellor.com
I have an Airmaster CS/Whirlwind 3 blade, fitted to my Rotax 912ULS - came with the part built Sonex I purchased.
Aircraft now ready to fly, however east coast of Australia almost under water, so even taxi runs (on grass strip) out of the question for at least next two weeks.
I hope the prop performs half as good as it looks.
I doubt I would have purchased a CS for my Sonex (if it hadn’t come with one) . My experience to date pretty well demonstrates that the very significant extra cost/weight/complexity, compared with a good quality ground adjustable, is almost impossible to justify in terms of performance improvement.
E-Props have been heavily marketed, here in Australia. Made by a French company, they certainly sound wonderful (too good to be true?). They even have a CS which weighs little more than many other brands ground adjust - may be worth checking out.
Re: Which Propeller?
Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:03 am
by meglin
We have also prepared for shipment to Spain a 3-blade propeller with particularly strong saber-shaped blades with a diameter of 63.7". Let’s see how he will show himself on Jabiru-3300.
Its 2-blade version performed very well on the Jabiru-2200.
It’s time to test the work of a more powerful version.
I hope we will be able to compare him with the best candidates.