Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:34 pm
by sonex1649
Looking for advice for my sonex. what would you recommend taildragger or trigear?
Thanks joe
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:46 pm
by MichaelFarley56
Well Joe, that’s a debate that has been, and will continue to go on forever. Ultimately I’d suggest you build whichever one your heart tells you to build and be happy with it regardless.
Logically, the differences are very minimal, especially once they’re airborne. Both fly the exact same in the air except the trigear may be just a tad slower. You’re talking a very small difference though, maybe a few miles per hour or less.
On the ground, there are some more differences but again they’re slight differences. Most will say the taildragger is a little easier to get into and out of. The trigear is more forgiving on the actual takeoff and landing, and will also provide a better view. The trigear is probably a little better in crosswinds. The taildragger is normally a few pounds lighter. Have you ever flown a taildragger? While it’s easy to fly, the Sonex taildragger still needs your attention during takeoff and landing.
The debate will go on forever. The bad news is that eventually you’ll have to decide which you like more. The good news is, you won’t go wrong either way! No matter which way you build, you’ll have a blast flying!
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:49 pm
by ScottM-Sonex1629
Hi Joe,
I have asked and debated this question many times. Mostly the response I get is build what you want, but I’ll ask the same question others asked me:
Do you have any tailwheel time and endorsement?
I didn’t and I got my kit delivered as a tri-gear. I’ve flown in a tri-gear Waiex a few times and have to say the ground handling is easy. The second time I flew in Steve’s Waiex, he let me perform the taxi, and take off, then we flew over to another airport and I shot about 4 T&G’s and never really thought about the landing gear.
All of my stick time has been in 152’s, 172’s and Mooney’s.
Your insurance is also going to be less with a tri-gear.
Scott
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:07 pm
by fastj22
Having had my plane as both with the nose and tail wheel, I definitely like the tail dragger better. It has far more ramp appeal. Ground handling is not that much more difficult. It does take more care on landings in a cross wind, but not that much. Oh and if you don’t already have a lot of tail wheel time, you will not be able to get insurance until you have at least 25 hours time in make and model, or at least 10 hours dual in make and model with a CFI (So said Falcon).
Several Sonex have been converted from tri to tail like mine. I’ve not heard of anyone going from tail to trike.
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:17 am
by Flyingejk51
Mine is a Trigear, my hanger buddy’s is a taildragger (both Waiex’s),either is as much fun as the other, arguably the taildragger looks cooler, but I have less hassles on the ground, after all we got the aircraft to fly,not to taxi it. Go with whatever suits you.
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 1:56 am
by CRAZEDpilot
There is one universal truth about taildraggers in the ongoing argument that will always be true - tailwheels have a mystique that people will forever admire in the plane, and the respect that comes with flying it well. The COST for that is of course more of a handful on landing and some consistency you must bring to the table, mostly in staying current with your landing and takeoff skills. Fly semi often, and the tailwheel ferry dust shall put a smile on your face that will never go away!
I recently did a checkout flight in my recently acquired Saratoga - the owner of the 200 student flight school in Florida who was my checkpilot for the day says, “Well — this won’t take long, since you’re a taildragger bush plane owner already that means you’re a good pilot”. You can’t buy that kind of respect - it only comes with taildraggers! 
~Brendan
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:07 am
by Bryan Cotton
I honestly used to be a tailwheel snob. That was when I was younger and less mature. Thinner too, though that is not a factor in the tri vs tail debate. If the thought of tailwheel is stressful, why do it to yourself? We do this for fun. If the challenge or ramp appeal interests you, go for the taildragger. If I can do it anybody can. There is no wrong answer. I would get a tailwheel endorsement, or at least a couple hours of dual if you are on the fence.
These days when I rent I fly either a C140 or a C152. I like them both.
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:18 am
by daleandee
I had a trigear, now I have a tail wheel. Tri-gear Sonex was the easiest tricycle geared airplane I’ve ever landed.
I had a bit of trepidation about the tail wheel Sonex. It was unwarranted as the tail wheel Sonex is very well behaved. Here is an excellent article that shows the many benefits of flying tail wheel aircraft:
http://airfactsjournal.com/2013/08/why-you-must-fly-a-taildragger/
.PNG)
Dale Williams
N319WF @ 6J2
Myunn - “daughter of Cleanex”
120 HP - 3.0 Corvair
Tail Wheel - Center Stick
62.1 hours / Status - Flying
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:52 pm
by mike.smith
fastj22 wrote:Having had my plane as both with the nose and tail wheel, I definitely like the tail dragger better. It has far more ramp appeal. Ground handling is not that much more difficult. It does take more care on landings in a cross wind, but not that much. Oh and if you don’t already have a lot of tail wheel time, you will not be able to get insurance until you have at least 25 hours time in make and model, or at least 10 hours dual in make and model with a CFI (So said Falcon).
Several Sonex have been converted from tri to tail like mine. I’ve not heard of anyone going from tail to trike.
I got my insurance with 25 hours total tailwheel, including 5 with Joe at Sonex. I just sent in the first insurance check yesterday.
Mike Smith
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:44 pm
by andrewp
- The Sonex is the easiest taildragger to taxi, take off and land in. It isn’t even fair. I am sure you can get yourself in trouble with it, but I am an extremely ordinary pilot and I have yet to have it put me in a bad position yet.
- There are some nicely done nose dragger sonex and waiex airframes running around, but I have not regretted for a second doing it as a tail dragger. It is all in the eye of the beholder, but I think it looks a tiny bit better.
- I had no tailwheel experience before the Sonex. It was a bit of a pain getting the endorsement, but it makes you a better pilot. Yes the insurance was a little annoying to organize initially, but I just stuck close to the airport for the initial hours.
- Whoever said about tailwheel credibility, they are absolutely right. People read stuff into it, whether it is deserved or not!
Andrew
#618
“Flyin’ Matilda”
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:09 pm
by vigilant104
I think most of us own airplanes to fly, and we fly to have fun. The trigear and the TD fly just the same once the wheels are off the ground.
If I want to land on rough strips, or if there’s something about the TO/landing/ground handling of them that I enjoy, a TD deserves my serious consideration.
If I want easier landing when the wind is blowing and a reduced chance of pranging my plane (insurance rates reflect real experience), then a trigear deserves my serious consideration.
If I fly, or own an airplane, to impress others, I’d probably be better off to just buy a spiffy new hat and see if that works.
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:38 am
by MichaelFarley56
Mark already has a cool hat! Tough to see in the pic but it’s there. No wonder his airplane looks so good!
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 10:32 pm
by Sonex541
Well when I was in the market for a Sonex I had my mind and heart set on a tri-gear and dual stick , well needless to say my center stick tail dragger sits in my hangar as we speak , a lot of people scared me and tried to warn me to stay away from a tail dragger , and say there tough to fly and yada , yada , well after a lot of thought back and forth a great deal showed up and it was a center stick , tail wheel , I had no tail wheel time and no Sonex time what’s so ever , and I bought it , yikes , after 6 months of making changes and fixing and making sure it was perfect , I started thinking how am I goin to learn to fly this dam thing , my girl kept telling me you have all that money into a plane you can’t fly , I said I can fly it I just don’t know how , lol well i meet a great instructor and in 10 hours in my own sonex and I soloed it , , wasn’t a big deal with the center stick on landings he would put his hand down the bottom just incase things got hectic , never really did , , after all I just hit 70 hours this week in the Sonex and luved every minute of it , they more I fly the more comfortable I am , if I don’t fly for a few weeks, I always start back with calm nights or early am ,
Which ever you choose you will have fun , please don’t let people scare or tell you it’s tuff , if I can fly tail wheel then anyone can , I have only a few hours in a cub maybe 8 or9 and 2 hours in a 170 tail wheel , Practice , practice , practice , , I still go and shoot 5 or 6 t/o and landings and stay in the pattern on a quit nite , and practice , need to work on my 3 point landings which I would rather wheel land,
Adam Simmons
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:32 pm
by daleandee
Adam and Andrew,
You guys need to stop telling people how easy a Sonex tail wheel airplane is to fly! Aren’t us tail wheel pilots supposed to keep the mystery alive that only super human pilots can fly tail wheel aircraft? I thought we all understood that it took a level of superior skill and a need to be “born to fly” so that one could ever hope to have the talents to tame the unruly and ferocious tail wheel machine! Now you guys are making it sound like it’s really a piece of cake …
Sooooo … now that the truth is out I will also confess. The tail wheel Sonex is an extremely docile tail wheel aircraft. I’m not saying that you don’t need to learn some new skills but I agree with both of these gentlemen … if I can learn to do this in a Sonex, anyone can. I had trepidation about it but decided that I wanted to “up my game” and figured that with so many others doing it, certainly I should also be able to figure it out.
The real reason for me going from tricycle to conventional gear is not what you might think. I wanted more power than the Aerovee engine was giving me. I didn’t have Jabiru 3300 money and I personally believe the Corvair is the best engine for the Sonex air frame. No one had flown a Corvair on a nose wheel Sonex and I wasn’t gonna be the first. Also this was an opportunity to build the aircraft I wanted and learn some new skills in order to fly it.
My point to this overly long rant is this … if you want to build and fly a tail wheel Sonex then do so. There is no reason to be afraid of this configuration with a Sonex. I had a nose wheel and liked the airplane very much as it was extremely easy to land. I’m not a “dog on the bone” tail wheel guy but just want to reiterate; there is no reason to think you can’t handle a Sonex tail wheel airplane. It just ain’t that hard.
Dale
N319WF
63.0 Hours
PS: It’s poems like these that keep the rumors of the “tough to tame tail dragger” alive and well:
Ode To The Tail dragger
Tail dragger, I hate your guts.
I have the license, ratings and such,
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and controls in my clutch
It takes a little rudder…easy, that’s too much !
You see, I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
With one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer,
But this miserable thing with tires and struts
Takes a little rudder…easy, that’s too much !
It demands your attention on the takeoff roll,
Or it heads towards the boonies as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don’t over control.
This wicked little plane is just too much
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I’ve mastered this slippery machine.
It’s not too bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder…easy, that’s too much !
I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye
I suddenly realize, with a gasp and a cry
That’s my own tail that 's going by!
You ground looping wreck, I hate your guts,
Just a little rudder…easy, that’s too much !
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 6:13 am
by sonex1649
Thanks everyone
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:44 am
by andrewp
It doesn’t matter what you pick, you will enjoy it anyway. I detect the same level of glee in Dale and Adam that I have myself, 45 hours on. It isn’t a perfect airplane, it isn’t for everyone, but it is a truly great airplane.
Doesn’t matter what you build, you will enjoy it. We (Rosemary and I) love our “Matilda” to bits. Just wish it had four seats occasionally so we could duct tape the children down.
Oh, and I forgot:
Tail draggers rule.
Even when they are covered in pollen. And need their wheel pants painted.
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:50 am
by corton
I would probably have built a nosedragger, but I couldn’t get up on the wing. I’m not as flexible as I was in the younger days. With a TD, I can put one foot on the wing, and just step up with the other foot. With the ND, I’d have to crawl up on my hands and knees, then stand up. NOT something I was going to display at ANY airport! At the workshop, when Kerry said the Sonex was his first TD, then I was convinced I could do it. Additionally, John Monett said he’s never seen a bird with a nosewheel!
I obtained my TW endorsement a few months before first flight. Did it in 10 hrs (CFI thought I wanted to fly the Decathlon solo, hence the added time). My first solo TW flight, and my first flight of any type in a Sonex was THE first flight of MY Sonex. Non-event. (well, those who know me know about the first UNofficial flight…).
When it came to insurance, I went with a local aviation agency, Ladd Gardner. They had to scrape a lotta moss off the insurance stones, but I obtained coverage. Due to my zero Sonex time and only 10 hrs dual TW time, they would not write hull coverage until after I flew-off my 40 hr Phase 1 activities. But I was able to obtain liability-on, with non-movement hull coverage (as in, if the hangar collapsed on it).
Carl
#1170
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:28 am
by Sonex541
I also don’t want to say that it is extremely easy cause after a few lesson I came home and said , dammit why did I buy that dam tail wheel Sonex on a few occasions , but practice makes perfect and the next time a bit better and the next a bit better , , the one thing that a good friend of mine and very experienced tail wheel pilot , who also got me my my tailwheel endorsement gave me quit a few pointers and tips , and the major one that worked and helped me out was , on take off roll I was over correcting , right rudder , oops too much now left rudder oops too much back to right and this went on for a few lessons , until he told me to keep even pressure on both my feet say 10lbs est. and then very small corrections , I was stomping on the right then stomping on the left , and back and forth , and releasing all the pressure on the opposite side , when people say dance on the rudder pedals , I figured dance on those dam things , when I dance I lift my legs and I was doing the same thing with the rudders , luckily no ground loops but a few scary landings and a few scary take off rolls ,not goin to lie we have all done it some will confess some won’t , the shape of the windscreen also plays tricks on you , and you think you are on the center line , when in fact you are way off , my home airport is 150 wide so you have some slack , but often visit a 50 ft .x1700 so it keeps you on yours a bit more , I also remember reading that someone said the Sonex is so easy to fly that you could fly the tail wheel with no tail wheel training or experience ,I hardly doubt that and do not recomend that at all , would be a ugly situation , the tail wheel Sonex is a bit easier than the other tail wheel I have flown but you still need to be on your toes and too many people have given it the wrong impression that it is so easy to fly the tail wheel version , anything is easy when you practice and do it over and over again , all I’m saying is don’t be afraid to buy a tailwheel and I’m sure you will get the hang of it , might take a few hours but you will ,
Adam Simmons ,
Sonex 541
Re: Taildragger vs trigear
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:43 am
by Bryan Cotton
In my personal experience, it is much worse to be complacent due to a lot of tailwheel experience than it is to be new.