Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

ArchiveBot · February 12, 2023, 6:00am

Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:19 am

by sean44

Greetings,

I posted this question on Facebook and someone suggested I’d post here. I’m an ex USAF instructor pilot and been in the airlines now for a while. Have had some Tailwheel planes I’ve owned but now getting the itch to go upside down again. Seeing as this might cause my passengers a wee bit of discomfort I started to look around for other options. I’m an ex college fullback and played rugby into my late forties - aka I’m a wide load! I’m about 5’10” and 300 lbs and the weight is coming off due to a non invasive procedure I had done about 8 months ago but I doubt the width of my shoulders will ever be affected. I saw a few videos on YouTube of folks flying with the center stick between their legs. I’ve talked with one and understand left foot on left side left rudder pedal and right foot on right side righ rudder pedal - but just wondering if anyone is operating like this and if so thoughts about either finding a center stick A or B model and operating this way or building one myself. Mark at the factory thinks it an OK idea and to just install some extra seat belt attach points so one could move between single and dual seat operations.

Also I’m in Orlando area half the month and upstate NY near KGFL the other half if anyone has a center stick they might allow me to look at and try on for size.

Thanks again for the welcome into the group.
Oh and if anyone might have a W and B for a Waiex B with any engine combination that would be great but in particular the Jabiru 3300 for the extra allowable GW to consider.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:27 am

by Bryan Cotton

Hey Sean, welcome to the forums! I have dual sticks but plenty of reports on this forum regarding flying from the middle.
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=6645&p=50413

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=4192&p=53757&hilit=Fly+from+middle#p53757

I think there are more posts in this regard, but this was what I found in a quick search. Flying from the middle should be as roomy as a Pawnee.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:33 am

by Bryan Cotton

Regarding W&B check this database out:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2933

At 300 you are fine solo even with the Aerovee. I really like my Aerovee for economical operation but I understand the desire for hot rod performance. In my opinion the 3300 tops that list - 120 HP and Aerovee weight.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:56 am

by sean44

Thanks for the responses Bryan.

Anyone reading operating with a UL320 iS? From what I can gather its more hp with less installed weight than the Aero Vee - and also allows for the 1150 GW. I was watching an older video when they first came out with the AV Turbo and they mentioned they’d be pushing the GW for the AeroVee Turbo to 1150 GW - anyone know if that was ever done? I’d be interested in chatting with folks also running the AeroVee Turbo on what they think of that engine.

Thanks again everyone.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:16 am

by Bryan Cotton

If you look at the specs on the website, 100+ HP gives you 1150 lbs. So this includes the Aerovee turbo. I have a naturally aspirated Aerovee but got one flight in a turbo 5 years ago, and I was impressed with the performance.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:42 pm

by sean44

I just watched one of the AeroVee Turbo videos where they did talk about the 1150 GW on the AeroVee.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:43 pm

by Bryan Cotton

Compared to a NA Aerovee, the turbo costs some weight. IIRC, something like 20-25 lbs so you don’t gain the entire 50 lbs.

I really had two goals in mind when I went with a straight Aerovee:

Economics. Cheap to buy/build, cheap to operate, cheap to maintain. 57 hours in and I love the Aerovee. It has met my goals here.
Lower performance - My kids will have the opportunity to learn to fly in the airplane. I’m a firm believer that a low performance airplane, i.e. one you have to fly well at gross weight and know your performance, is good for training. If you learn to fly in a Super Cub then no runway will ever seem too short, no obstacle too high, and you don’t even really have to be that good. It has also met my goals here as well. When we are heavy you have to fly the airplane well and be aware of your performance limitations.

With this said, we are still climbing around 400 fpm when heavy. Much better than towing a heavy two place glider with a super cub. Not all that different than a heavy C140.

My chute comes Friday. I plan to fly acro from the right seat so I can do left hand throttle, right hand stick. I’ll probably do acro from both sides as I fly from both sides anyway.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:41 pm

by BRS

My Sonex-A was a dual stick (purchased used) but during the renovation I reconfigured it to center stick as I figured I’d mostly fly it solo. Though I only have 5 hours on it so far, flying from the center is quite natural and using the outside pedals is a no brainer. I’ve not ever made the mistake of using the center pedals - that would make for an awful landing.

Here are two pics of seating L then C. I’m looking for a pic of what I did with the throttle & mixture. Basically they are below the panel above the left knee when seated in the center. So they work while seated L or C. I’m 5’10.5" and about 190# with a 32" inseam (for reference). Remember to ‘click’ the image to see it all.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:50 pm

by sean44

Thanks Brock -

That’s what I was looking for. Let me ask you how much of a project was it to convert from two stick to single?

Feel free to PM me a number I might be able to reach out to you at some point about this. I’m finding a few used Sonex or Waiex but they are dual stick. My idea would be to convert one if the price is right and the engine is good and I can trust the build. I’ve also been thinking if I did this - I might just convert it to 100% single pilot. I know I’d be giving something up resale - but I don’t ever want to mistake a left rudder for a right rudder.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:02 pm

by sean44

Brock,

Where are you located?

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:17 pm

by BRS

sean44 wrote:Brock,

Where are you located?

PM sent…

It would be trivial to take a small tubing cutter to the inside pedals and remove them in such a way that they could be sleeved and later reinstalled. Else you could just paint them red or wire them to your ignition coils to keep your feet off (kidding of course).

I believe you could contact Sonex and they would put together all the parts for the change from dual to single. I believe that is what I did. Basically replace (almost) all the parts in this pic (below). Then the seat pan would have to be patched and a center hole cut, this is what I did. Else you could get a new seat pan an hinges from sonex (more work, more expense).

I think that is most of it.

edit: One more, seat cushions. I started from scratch on mine since the old ones were not nice.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:38 pm

by sean44

Perfect - thanks for your time Brock - very helpful indeed.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:41 pm

by Bryan Cotton

There’s a center stick Sonex with a Jabiru on barnstormers.
https://www.barnstormers.com/listing_im … 00679&so=9

Edit: nevermind, dual sticks.

Re: Single Pilot Operation with Center Stick Sonex or Waiex

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:32 am

by sean44

Yea I had to look twice also. I am thinking about getting a pre-buy on it and converting to center stick. Already talking with someone here who did the same thing. But this plane hasn’t flown in a few years.