How to use plans
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:35 pm
by sjakulski
My prior build was a Glastar, where the manufacturer provided two thick but very well defined assembly manuals (instructions with diagrams) that permitted a builder to follow a logical sequence (a 5th grader could build using their manuals - 
Just had my Waiex-B kit delivered yesterday and I was looking, with confusion, at the plans this evening. Anyway, is there a trick to following a logical sequence for part/component assembly with the Sonex plans? It does not appear that the page layout follows any logical build progression .
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:50 pm
by lakespookie
I got you also you are not in the Waiex-B section, But here is the gist of it.
I belive its the third page that has the tree diagram, That is your build order bible basically the way it works is that you pick a box to start with at the bottom and work your way up any lines connecting to a box above require the child box. If that makes any sense, the pages are numbered using a logical format an example page would be WXB-W14 where the WXB stands for waiex-b the W stands for wings and the 14 is the page number in the wing set. F is for fuselage, T is for Tail, G is for Gear etc.
When looking at the plans and the multiple views start with the part in the orientation of the center view. Imagine the part in the bottom of a bowl and each view is what happens when you push the part up the side of the bowl i dont have another good way to explain it other than that.
At the bottom left of each plans page is the list of parts or assemblies you will be preparing or building and what plans page they will be needed for next.
If you have any doubts as to what the resultant part should look i would look at where they will be used next to see if you have a clearer understanding of the look of the final assembly.
I do a live stream on saturdays on twitch if you would like just join it and i can walk your through the plans how to read them and what not. if you want to talk on the phone send me a DM and i can set up a video chat and walk you thought it i have several cameras set up in my workshop for streaming so it should not be to hard.
If you have not begun making any parts i will have a follow on post for a series of page orders you can look at to start on the tail assemblies i just need to run down and look at my plans.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:11 am
by lakespookie
Ok so now that i have looked at my plans the tree diagram is in WXB-B03 thats the third page in the big set of plans.
For additional reference the plans are in alphabetical order based on the subsection letter and then obviously with the subsection page number. i would start with the tail and in particular with the stabilator assembly. If you are looking at the tree page WXB-B03 the branch that includes the stabilator assembly is on the right side its like the second branch. Starting at the bottom you would start assembly on WXB-T11 the next box up is WXB-T10, then WXB-T09, WXB-08 and with those 4 pages you will have the assembly that is ready for installation using the instructions on the page above WXB-T08 which clearly is labaled as stabilator instalation since you havent built your fuselage that is where you would stop with that assembly.
Now for more details WXB-T11 is mostly a parts list with 1 set of assemblies and the assembly is essentially to take the long laser cut aluminum attach arm and place a bend in the arm. There are no instructions for how to make a bender but the easiest way is to purchase a small hydralic press and notch a 4x4 then use a piece of pipe of the correct diameter to result in the desired radius of bend. the rest of the parts on that page just need to be deburred and cleaned up on the edges. When you are done with that page you will go to the next page up WXB-T10 if you look at the bottom right you will see the part you are modifying listed as an assembly and it should indicate the next place it will be used is WXB-T10 as will all the other parts in that page. That is not always the case but i belive it is the case for the parts on this page. Not in front of the plans again so i may be off. but you should be able to get the gist of it from my descriptions on my previous post and this post.
sonex has several tips videos on their website located here: https://www.sonexaircraft.com/video-tips/
The specific video for the part on WXB-T11 is here: https://players.brightcove.net/62700807 ⌠0439503001
The videos are not the best quality but they get the idea across.
This should get you started.
And feel free to reach out.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:13 am
by lakespookie
Mods, Can we get this moved to the Waiex-B forums?
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:37 am
by Bryan Cotton
Sonex or Waiex, pick a part to work on. Most people start with the tail. Go to the end of the tail pages and work backwards towards the first tail page. Then pick another part, like the fuselage. Go to the end of the fuselage pages and work backwards to the beginning of them.
That is the secret.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:12 am
by sjakulski
Great Thanks for the responses. After studying the plans for awhile I finally figured out that one works backwards (so to speak) (bottom up using the tree). Not intuitive, and more abstract, but works.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:08 pm
by mike.smith
sjakulski wrote:Great Thanks for the responses. After studying the plans for awhile I finally figured out that one works backwards (so to speak) (bottom up using the tree). Not intuitive, and more abstract, but works.
Yup. Best, but weirdest, set of drawings in the industry. Back to front is insane, but it is what it is. Iâm an architect, and there is no architect or engineer in their right mind that would create a set of drawings that reads from back to front. Youâd be sent to the loony bin if you did (after first being fired)!
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:40 am
by Rynoth
As mentioned above, use the building tree to guide your progress through the pages. Mark off completed plans pages on the tree as you work your way up (I liked to write the date of completion next to the boxes.)
Work on one page at a time until the page is complete before moving on. In the bottom-right of each page it lists the part numbers that are completed on that page (and will be used/referenced on subsequent pages.) Mark those on the page as you complete them as well, and always label your parts with those part numbers for future reference. Sometimes parts will look very similar (left/right versions, etc), so part labeling is important.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:59 am
by AlFromNY
After receiving my tail kit and looking at the âplansâ - which are really âEngineering Drawings,â I found a video series for building the tail kit step by step: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9XClXqHS1Q
However, I found that I need more education in reading âengineering drawingsâ or blueprints after I marked the Rudder Skin âbackwards,â Fortunately though, I did not cut the âinsertâ for the rudder horn, as I only cut the skin lengthwise at 1" segments in order to perfect my cutting process using shears, files and die grinder as well as a Milwaukee M12 nibbler, in order to perfect the process of getting a perfect straight line.
After struggling with the cut on the right side (apparently the bottom) of the rudder skin, and marking the cutout, I tried to fit the rudder horn and it would not fit - which is when I discovered that I misinterpreted the âblueprint,â
I then found a file in Sonexaircraft âsupportâ - https://www.sonexaircraft.com/documents ⌠_Plans.pdf
which did not really explain how to read the actual âengineering drawings.â SONEX REALLY SHOULD DO A BETTER JOB.
I then began to re-watch a video âBLUEPRINT READING PART 1, Marc LâEcuyerâ (there are several parts) so as to get a better understanding of the âengineering drawingsâ https://www.sonexaircraft.com/documents ⌠_Plans.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw3CrHMtzMk
Prior to watching this blueprint reading video I realized that the âprojectionâ to the right of the rudder skin on SNB-T13 was a flipped over view of the rudder skin. I also realized that the rudder skin drawing at the left bottom of SNB-T13 was with the long side of the rudder skin on top - as the thin line with double dashes and 1 long dash pattern was showing the bottom or hidden side of the rudder skin (known, as per the blueprint reading video as a âPHANTOM LINE.â
SONEX REALLY SHOULD HAVE MORE DETAILED INFORMATION FOR PROPERLY READING THE âENGINEERING DRAWINGSâ!! But, I shall âendeavor to persevere!â
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:39 am
Iâm building a Sonex A. The Sonex plans are very good and they track changes. I would suggest instead of bashing Sonex you take a drawing class at a local college to learn how to read drawings. Itâs not Sonexâs job to teach how to read drawings.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:57 am
by sjakulski
tice@qvation.com wrote:Iâm building a Sonex A. The Sonex plans are very good and they track changes. I would suggest instead of bashing Sonex you take a drawing class at a local college to learn how to read drawings. Itâs not Sonexâs job to teach how to read drawings.
AlFromNY wrote:After receiving my tail kit and looking at the âplansâ - which are really âEngineering Drawings,â I found a video series for building the tail kit step by step: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9XClXqHS1Q
However, I found that I need more education in reading âengineering drawingsâ or blueprints after I marked the Rudder Skin âbackwards,â Fortunately though, I did not cut the âinsertâ for the rudder horn, as I only cut the skin lengthwise at 1" segments in order to perfect my cutting process using shears, files and die grinder as well as a Milwaukee M12 nibbler, in order to perfect the process of getting a perfect straight line.
After struggling with the cut on the right side (apparently the bottom) of the rudder skin, and marking the cutout, I tried to fit the rudder horn and it would not fit - which is when I discovered that I misinterpreted the âblueprint,â
I then found a file in Sonexaircraft âsupportâ - https://www.sonexaircraft.com/documents ⌠_Plans.pdf
which did not really explain how to read the actual âengineering drawings.â SONEX REALLY SHOULD DO A BETTER JOB.
I then began to re-watch a video âBLUEPRINT READING PART 1, Marc LâEcuyerâ (there are several parts) so as to get a better understanding of the âengineering drawingsâ https://www.sonexaircraft.com/documents ⌠_Plans.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw3CrHMtzMk
Prior to watching this blueprint reading video I realized that the âprojectionâ to the right of the rudder skin on SNB-T13 was a flipped over view of the rudder skin. I also realized that the rudder skin drawing at the left bottom of SNB-T13 was with the long side of the rudder skin on top - as the thin line with double dashes and 1 long dash pattern was showing the bottom or hidden side of the rudder skin (known, as per the blueprint reading video as a âPHANTOM LINE.â
SONEX REALLY SHOULD HAVE MORE DETAILED INFORMATION FOR PROPERLY READING THE âENGINEERING DRAWINGSâ!! But, I shall âendeavor to persevere!â
Yes, While I enjoyed the build, after having completed my Waiex-B using the âplansâ I have to give that process a C- grade. A good assembly manual would have saved me weeks of build time AND lessened the potential for mistakes due to misinterpretation of the plans and its sequencing. (Not to mention a number of mistakes found in the plans.) Of course, once the project is complete one can better understand the build processâŚ.fine if one is to build a second one. I believe it has to be hard for the factory to understand the shortcomings of using their plans based assembly for new builders since they are already too familiar with the build. BTW, are you familiar with the Facebook Sonex site (Sonex Builders/Pilots)? I tend to use it first to post or ask questions than using this forum as I find it hard to find/search and get what I am looking for on here (too many âhitsâ to sort through).
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:51 am
by bvolcko38
I donât understand your distinction between engineering drawings and blueprints. You have to be careful when reading the plans. Sometimes they show a top down view, sometimes a bottom up view, sometimes a right hand view and sometimes a left hand view. Be careful. Take your time. Donât make scrap. My scrap pile is very small fortunately, except for a lower spar cap.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:20 am
by AlFromNY
sjakulski,
First - I am NOT bashing SONEX. Offering a suggestion is NOT bashing Sonex. And, as you can see from others who responded - and Iâve also received a private response as well, Iâm not the only one who has trouble interpreting the Engineering Drawings or blueprints.
Perhaps Iâm missing something, but is there even a âkeyâ or âlegendâ to the various types of lines in the Blueprints / Engineering Drawings?
And as I indicated and referenced, I am watching blueprint / engineering drawing videos so I can properly interpret the drawings. But do you think when people purchased the plans they understood that they needed to take a class at a local college or do you think they expected the plans would be easier to follow?
And finally, in response to your statement âItâs not Sonexâs job to teach how to read drawings.â Itâs not for YOU - or me - to tell Sonex what their job is; I made a suggestion - and as you can see from the OTHER responses to my post, Iâm NOT the only one who has trouble working from the Engineering Drawings or Blueprints, and PERHAPS Sonex would sell more plans & kits if they follow my suggestion.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:26 am
by AlFromNY
bvolcko,
to answer your question, I believe I found the term Engineering Drawing in the video I referred to (âBLUEPRINT READING PART 1, Marc LâEcuyerâ) and gave the link as well. Iâm not sure that the distinction makes any difference.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for someone, if Sonex is not going to do it, to publish /sell a key or legend for reading the drawings, even something as simple as saying, e.g. that the drawing to the right of the Sonex rudder skin drawing on drawing number SNB-T13 is a view looking to the right of the rudder skin after flipping the rudder skin over to face the opposite direction.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:04 am
by Bryan Cotton
The Sonex class they used to hold at the factory was awesome. Discussed how to use the plans and you got to build a leading edge section. Itâs too bad that ended.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:08 pm
by AlFromNY
Bryan Cotton wrote:The Sonex class they used to hold at the factory was awesome. Discussed how to use the plans and you got to build a leading edge section. Itâs too bad that ended.
Hello again, Bryan,
Perhaps another video in soneâs SUPPORT section for interpreting the various views (drawings) would be helpful; I did find this link in the sonex support section (which answers someone elseâs question about where I got the term ENGINEERING DRAWINGS as well): https://www.sonexaircraft.com/documents ⌠_Plans.pdf.
My post, btw was âtriggeredâ by my difficult PROPERLY interpreting the drawing of the Rudder skin cutouts found at the bottom of SNB-T13 - I originally thought that light line with double short-dashes was the BEND, which is how I marked (but did not cut) the âcutoutsâ on the right side of that drawing, which turned out to be incorrect. After further edjumacating myself, I now know that that line represents the hidden bend on the other side of the skin.
I had/ have even more difficulty interpreting the drawing immediately to the right of the long rudder skin drawing, but I think I have it now.
Thanks to all who responded!!
Alan K
Rye, NY
SonexB tail kit builder
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:20 pm
by lakespookie
https://www.sonexaircraft.com/video-tips/
These are great supplements to the plans, there was a video that dealt with the plans but i cant find it anymore might be an EAA webinar.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:47 pm
by lakespookie
I wish i could find the webinar that talked about how the plans relate to a bowl and the views basically rotate the part as if it was going up the side of a bowl, that is a huge thing to understand how the views related to one another.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:51 pm
by AlFromNY
lakespookie wrote:I wish i could find the webinar that talked about how the plans relate to a bowl and the views basically rotate the part as if it was going up the side of a bowl, that is a huge thing to understand how the views related to one another.
I believe, you are talking about the explanation for first angle projection or third angle projection, which is discussed on BLUEPRINT READING PART 1, Marc LâEcuyer found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw3CrHMtzMk
at about 24:40 on the video
Alan K.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:05 pm
by lakespookie
28:48 in that video has a good explainer of the bowl but the one i am talking about was specifically using sonex plans as an example. That being said it is third angle projection as explained in that video that is how the sonex plans work.
Re: How to use plans
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:20 pm
by AlFromNY
lakespookie wrote:28:48 in that video has a good explainer of the bowl but the one i am talking about was specifically using sonex plans as an example. That being said it is third angle projection as explained in that video that is how the sonex plans work.
Hopefully someone will have a link and post it; I need to continue watching that blueprints video.