Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:22 am
by jowens
Hi,
I spent many hours using nuvite to polish my sonex. For me, it was a dirty job personally and to my shop. It’s highly likely I was using poor technique or something even after watching Kerry’s excellent instructional nuvite video. I called it good enough and moved on. I then backtracked to a recommendation to try Zephyr PRO40. It is a product that is popular with semi-truck drivers. My first application to the sonex was all by hand. Goes on and off like car wax. This resulted in a better finish than what I could do with nuvite. I passed the recommendation on to my sonex friend Russ. He purchased a 6" orbital buffer from Home depot and sent me some pictures that inspired me to I purchase a 10" rhobi orbital buffer to apply the zephyr product. Wow, what a difference and easy!!
A few amazon ads indicate conterfeit or watered down product. Russ tested this out and found that the factory direct versus amazon did have a different consistancy but the effectiveness was the same.
I don’t believe pictures will capture the end result well but for me, the key is eliminating the backbreaking work and the mess- all probably due to my inabilities with nuvite. AND the end of fighting with polish build-up around each and every rivet- this doesn’t happen with Zephyr.
I have no stock in zephyr, amazon, or any gains that may be implied by this post. I just wanted to share my great luck with the product. I do wish I would have purchased a cordless orbital buffer to avoid wrangling the electrical cord.
Thanks,
Re: Polishing alternatives
Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:27 am
by sonex1374
Jim,
This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing! If would be really helpful to see a picture or two of the exact product(s) you’re using, along with the buffer and pads you’re using (Amazon, Youtube and the Zephyr website show a dizzying assortment of items). Anything that avoids the mess of nuvite ranks pretty high on my list to try!
Thanks,
Jeff
Re: Polishing alternatives
Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:07 am
by Rynoth
A quick search for Zephyr PRO-40 actually brought me to this kitplanes article, where Kerry mentions it’s what he now uses. Published just this March.
https://www.kitplanes.com/the-decision-to-polish/
Re: Polishing alternatives
Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:22 am
by Rynoth
I will add a tip here regarding polishing off the cadmium plating on the heads on AN hardware. As Kerry mentions, subsequent regular polishing will clean up any corrosion, however what I did is use ACF-50 on a towel and wiped the bolt heads with it after a polish and again once a year. ACF-50 is a long lasting corrosion inhibitor and seems to help keep the bolt heads rust free. It’s available at ACS for ~$18 and 1 can will last a very long time. I also use it on pushrods, etc where any powder coat is missing.
Re: Polishing alternatives
Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:33 am
by WesRagle
Hi Jim,
This is very interesting! I’ve polished to the Nuvite F9 stage on my plane but would really like an easier/cleaner way to remove swirl marks.
I’ve read Kerry’s article. There’s one benefit of polishing that Kerry didn’t mention. Polished airplanes are much cooler. You can park them in the sun and the polished surface remains cool to the touch. A big deal where I live.
Thanks,
Wes
Re: Polishing alternatives
Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:54 pm
by Matt541
Thanks Jim, I just ordered a bottle of the Pro 40 direct from Zephyr. Not taking a chance on another Chinese Amazon knock off. I’ve been putting off polishing until I get some other tasks done, but that day is coming soon.
Here’s a video I found on YT of a trucker who uses it. He’s… uhh.. entertaining to watch, but looks like he gets good results with just a microfiber towel.
There’s another YouTuber who uses Mother’s Aluminum polish and All Chrome cleaner instead.
Re: Polishing alternatives
Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 7:54 pm
by MichaelFarley56
Good Info!
Has anyone found any viable alternative for Nuvite F9? Meaning, a coarse grade of polish that can be used as an initial cut for 6061-T6?
Re: Polishing alternatives
Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:49 pm
by Rynoth
MichaelFarley56 wrote:Good Info!
Has anyone found any viable alternative for Nuvite F9? Meaning, a coarse grade of polish that can be used as an initial cut for 6061-T6?
I was wondering the same… in the video posted above, the results on the side of the trailer were very impressive, but also showed how the machining marks were not being removed. I get the impression that the Zephyr product could be a great maintenance polish on an already-polished surface but not necessarily an initial polish of a fresh sheet of 6061-T6. Maybe using it with a buffer is different.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 8:21 am
by jowens
Hi Mike and Ryan,
Thank you for the question. I did not attempt a rotary polisher with the Zephyr, my impression with the techniques that I did use is that it is a finish polish product- it does not have, for a lack better term, abrasives that Nuvite has to smooth the grain in the aluminum. The buffer comes with two bonnets, I used the microfiber, I did not try the wool.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 6:09 pm
by sonex892.
After 10 years of polishing out fingerprints I recently gave up on the polishing and painted.
This is not an alternative to Nuvite. When I did polish I found this video the most helpful to cut down on time and effort.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 8:05 pm
by WesRagle
Some thread drift but … It seems to me that the worst part of polishing 6061-T6 is removing the grain. During those long hours of F9 polishing flat sheets I’ve often wondered if something like whats shown in this video would replace F9 polishing. Maybe start with a higher grit sand paper, always use an interface pad, and finish with the polishing method of your choice.
Anybody tried it? Might be worth an experiment.
Wes
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 9:30 pm
by Rynoth
WesRagle wrote:Some thread drift but … It seems to me that the worst part of polishing 6061-T6 is removing the grain. During those long hours of F9 polishing flat sheets I’ve often wondered if something like whats shown in this video would replace F9 polishing. Maybe start with a higher grit sand paper, always use an interface pad, and finish with the polishing method of your choice.
Anybody tried it? Might be worth an experiment.
Wes
My understanding is that sanding our thin structural skins may remove too much material resulting in a more fragile airframe. Nuvite is supposed to “bend” the grain over rather than remove it. Sanding/scotchbrite to remove scratches is one thing, but thinning out the entire material could have unintended consequences.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 9:57 pm
by WesRagle
Hi Ryan,
Rynoth wrote:Nuvite is supposed to “bend” the grain over rather than remove it.
I’ve heard that before but … , what’s all that black stuff that is all over me, all over the shop floor, and all over everything else after a polishing fit? I can see the shiny metallic stuff in the polishing pad if I go too long without using the spur. I’m not sure I buy it, especially with the F9. But I can’t say for sure.
Another thing that puzzles me is just how different the F9 experience can be from sheet to sheet. I made a fairing from some 0.025 that was left over from the Sonex build over a decade ago. No kidding, three passes of F9 and it was good to go. Other parts took so many passes I quit counting. I don’t know 10, maybe 12 passes. On some of the parts I gave up and hit it with three passes of No. 7 rubbing compound to get the grain down to where I could finish up with the F9. It’s a mystery.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:22 pm
by sonex892.
WesRagle wrote:Some thread drift but … It seems to me that the worst part of polishing 6061-T6 is removing the grain. During those long hours of F9 polishing flat sheets I’ve often wondered if something like whats shown in this video would replace F9 polishing. Maybe start with a higher grit sand paper, always use an interface pad, and finish with the polishing method of your choice.
Anybody tried it? Might be worth an experiment.
Wes
I love a shortcut and as an experiment tried 1200 grit on the turtle deck, I later wished I hadn’t. It gets rid of the mill marks quick but in the end it was a lot more work to compound than the bare sheet.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 1:52 am
by peter anson
I make steering struts from 6061 and polish them. I found that the best method was to use a Scotchbrite sheet (maroon or brown colour) to roughly clean off the surface and then use a buffing wheel. I’m not sure if that is useful information because a complete aircraft is a bit bigger than a 3/8" rod but it might be worth a try on a small area.
Peter
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 9:13 am
by DCASonex
Best way i found to do the initial polish to remove the grain is with the flat sheets on a large table where one can apply significant pressure to the polisher. If doing that on a finished assembly, it will leave crease marks from internal structure like wing ribs. Nuvite warms against using much pressure but I suspect that is due to the possibility of leaving crease marks on finished planes, but using pressure on flat sheets laying on a table really does speed up the process.
David A.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 11:10 am
by Rynoth
DCASonex wrote:Best way i found to do the initial polish to remove the grain is with the flat sheets on a large table where one can apply significant pressure to the polisher. If doing that on a finished assembly, it will leave crease marks from internal structure like wing ribs. Nuvite warms against using much pressure but I suspect that is due to the possibility of leaving crease marks on finished planes, but using pressure on flat sheets laying on a table really does speed up the process.
David A.
The other (perhaps more important) thing to look out for if/when applying pressure is how hot the aluminum is getting. It can heat up rather quickly and with excessive pressure/not enough movement there’s the possibility of causing warping and/or heat treating (reducing strength.) That said, doing F9 on a flat table is definitely the way to go for removing the initial grain.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:04 am
by Matt541
Got my bottle in yesterday, I’ll say my first impressions are good.
I only went after a few areas with a new microfiber towel, but it does appear to work as advertised. The product is definitely thinner than nuvite or other polishing compounds. It WILL NOT remove scratches and water spots. It is not for an initial polish IMHO. (The bottoms of my wings were never polished, applied some, need something more abrasive for sure.) But for maintaining or refreshing a polish, I think it works well.
Pro 40 used on the left, untouched on the right. (Turtledeck being prepped for paint.)
3’-5’ away it looks wonderful, closer than that and you can see any scratches or water spots.
I think it will work even better using a buffer/ polisher, but that task is a few items down the list.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 2:34 pm
by Rynoth
I got similar results, and I’m quite impressed with the product as a maintenance polish on an already polished aircraft.
In these pictures I cleaned up the whole wing with mineral spirits, then applied Zephyr Pro40 to the leading edge skin only with microfiber. Rub on, let dry, wipe off.
Honestly using Zephyr is easier than waxing a car, it didn’t require any sort of buffing, just some light elbow grease.
I did try it on my wing inspection panels that had been scotch-brite wheel smoothed but not polished. It cleaned them up a bit but by no means did it “polish” them. My impression is that it does a great job of returning the surface nearly to the original polished state, though it didn’t do much/anything for water spots or bug removal/spots. It basically pulls off the surface oxidation that dulls a mirror finish.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:31 pm
by jowens
Hi Ryan,
I too did just hand buffing, then followed with an orbital buffer, for me, there was a huge difference including removing water spots.
Jim
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:34 pm
by Rynoth
I just finished cleaning my plane with mineral spirits followed by hand-application of Zephyr Pro40.
This picture is my plane after the last time I polished it with Nuvite-C grade in November 2017:
And this is my plane after today (May 2020):
I think the Zephyr product does a fantastic job of restoring a 2.5 year old polish job with a lot less work. It doesn’t really make it look BETTER than a full polish job, but it absolutely worked as a maintenance polish. Might have bought myself another year before breaking out the Nuvite and pads to clean up all the water spots (I’ll try Zephyr with a buffer first.) It did remove fingerprint marks.
Just to re-iterate, Zephyr Pro40 did nothing to improve the shine of non-Nuvite polished parts on the plane (though it did clean them up a bit), and I don’t think it replaces Nuvite (or other similar initial-cut polishes) for the original polish.
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:35 pm
by flyingbear
With Nuvite and a buffer about how many hours are we talking to get an airplane polished like that?
glenb
Re: Finish polish alternatives
Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:11 pm
by Rynoth
flyingbear wrote:With Nuvite and a buffer about how many hours are we talking to get an airplane polished like that?
glenb
Without trying to be too pessimistic or optimistic, and depending on whether you’re starting with the sheets on a flat table or from a totally unpolished but assembled airframe… 40-60 hours? I polished most of mine as I built so it’s hard to get a solid tally. The last time I re-polished (with nuvite and buffer) everything but the bottom of the wings it took about 15 hours. But the initial polish cut takes quite a bit longer. I’m sure there will be folks that have spent 100+ hours cumulatively polishing and still aren’t quite satisfied.
It took me about 3-4 hours to “clean” my plane with the Zephyr Pro-40 which basically restored it to my previously polished state.