Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:22 pm
by WesRagle
Guys,
The documentation that came with my engine instructs me to use 20w50 racing oil. Aeroconversions AeroVee manual says to use “Brad-Penn Penn-Grade 1 Racing 20w50”. What I get when I google “Brad-Penn Penn-Grade 1 Racing 20w50” is “Penn Grade 1 SAE 20W50 Synthetic Blend Performance Engine Oil”.
Is this the right stuff?
Thanks,
Wes
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:03 pm
by rizzz
WesRagle wrote:Guys,
The documentation that came with my engine instructs me to use 20w50 racing oil. Aeroconversions AeroVee manual says to use “Brad-Penn Penn-Grade 1 Racing 20w50”. What I get when I google “Brad-Penn Penn-Grade 1 Racing 20w50” is “Penn Grade 1 SAE 20W50 Synthetic Blend Performance Engine Oil”.
Is this the right stuff?
Thanks,
Wes
I believe it is, I recently ordered a box from the same place I always get mine and was surprised the bottles now look like this. I think they just changed the look.
It is still “the original green oil” 
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:25 pm
by Outlaw6
That’s the stuff. New packaging design.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:52 pm
by WesRagle
Thanks guys. That is what I’ll get.
Wes
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:21 am
by rdsafe
OK Guys;
Explain this to me - from the latest AeroVee manual:
“Synthetic oils are incompatible with 100LL fuel and must not be used.”
I’m not trying to start anything here - just wanting the get the right information.
Has anyone inquired w/the Sonex people.
Thanks, R. Stauffer
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:08 am
by Rynoth
rdsafe wrote:Explain this to me - from the latest AeroVee manual:
“Synthetic oils are incompatible with 100LL fuel and must not be used.”
I’m not sure if that was a quote from an older manual version, but the latest guidance is to not use FULLY-synthetic oils.
Here’s a snip from the Aerovee Turbo SB published in 2016:
"new service bulletin ACV-SB-091616-2 states that Full-Synthetic oils may no longer be used in any AeroVee Engine due to incompatibilities with leaded aviation fuel and Full-Synthetic oils. Specifically, Valvoline VR-1, 20w50 synthetic and Mobil 1, 15W-50, are no longer approved. Semi-synthetic oils with high zinc and phosphorus content should be used. "
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:09 am
by Brett
Just google it and decide for yourself.
On a side note… all the testing I have done with oils… the fully synthetic ones seem to run notably hotter Cht’s… I switched back to semi synthetic.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:54 pm
by GraemeSmith
rdsafe wrote:OK Guys;
Explain this to me - from the latest AeroVee manual:
“Synthetic oils are incompatible with 100LL fuel and must not be used.”
Many years ago - Mobil paid out to repair a lot of engines that were ruined in 50 hours or less using their fully synthetic aviation oil which cannot absprb the lead.
The problem hasn’t gone away.
A semi oil has at least some mineral oil to carry away the lead. An all mineral nase is the better bet again.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:24 pm
by NWade
-
The factory recommends a specific oil for a reason.
-
As a homebuilder it’s best to educate yourself on these topics, not just rely on hearsay from people who have an unknown amount of experience with the subject or your particular aircraft/engine/etc.
Here’s s good article on oil from Mike Busch, a respected A&P who writes articles, and gives free webinars and Oshkosh seminars for EAA & AOPA:
https://www.savvyaviation.com/wp-conten … ut-oil.pdf
—Noel
Sonex #1339
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:22 pm
by chuckster
As per Kerry just the other day. Aero vee non turbo. Valvoline vr-1 20w-50 non synthetic
Brad Penn grade 1 racing 20w 50
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:16 am
by surfly
I am entering this post for Walter Eisenmann who has been using Castrol 20W50 for 600 hours without any oil related maintenance difficulties.
Sherm
ONEX 0176
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:32 am
by Bryan Cotton
surfly wrote:I am entering this post for Walter Eisenmann who has been using Castrol 20W50 for 600 hours without any oil related maintenance difficulties.
Sherm
ONEX 0176
Does Walter burn 100LL or autogas?
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:22 pm
by Scott Todd
Castrol makes a 20W50 in Regular, Synthetic Blend, and full Synthetic. I think it matters which one.
https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-st … -oils.html
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:07 am
by surfly
Walter uses Castrol 20W50 GTX oil and burns 90 octane auto gas.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:24 am
by Sonerai13
You can get by with the “synthetic blend” oils (sometimes called “para-synthetic” or “semi-synthetic”) if you’re using 100LL. Just don’t run any fully synthetic oils. The synthetic oils will not play well with the lead in the fuel.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:05 am
by Area 51%
Joe, can you shed any light as to why Aeroshell and/or Phillips oils are not a good mix for the Aerovee?
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:35 pm
by Scott Todd
(S) surfly asnwered the question but he didn’t. Castrol makes a 20W50 GTX Synthetic Blend version they call High Mileage. They also make a 20W50 GTX they call premium conventional.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 am
by Sonerai13
Area 51% wrote:Joe, can you shed any light as to why Aeroshell and/or Phillips oils are not a good mix for the Aerovee?
I wouldn’t necessarily say that these oils “aren’t a good mix”. I’d rather say that there are better oils for the application. In our AeroVee, we run the Valvoline VR-1 20w-50 and it works great. We can buy it at the local auto parts store. What’s not to like?
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:50 am
by Area 51%
I guess I’ll resign myself to losing a couple of pounds to offset the weight of the quart of oil I’ll have to carry around, and find another place for the toothbrush. Maybe a “Caravan” style belly pod.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:35 am
by WesRagle
Hi Guys,
Quotes from the AeroVee 2.1 assembly manual:
“The flat-tappet (non-roller rocker) design of the AeroVee requires an oil with zinc and phosphate levels of approximately
.12% to .14% (1200 - 1400 ppm). Do not use diesel engine oils (Rotella) and do not use oil additives.”
“Synthetic oils are incompatible with 100LL fuel and must not be used.”
"Approved break-in oils are:
Valvoline VR-1, 20w50, non-synthetic
Brad Penn Penn-Grade 1 Racing 20w50
"Approved post break-in oils are:
Brad Penn Penn-Grade 1 Racing 20w50
Valvoline VR-1, 20w50, non-synthetic
Quote from Penn Grade 1 info:
“It’s 1,500 ppm Zinc and 1,340-1,400 ppm Phosphorus contents provide the needed anti-wear protection to critical engine parts, such as piston/cylinder walls, roller cams under heavy valve spring pressure and especially those that employ a solid “flat tappet” type system.”
Quote from Valvoline VR-1, 20w50, non-synthetic info:
“High zinc/phosphorus for anti-wear protection, including push-rod & flat tappet applications”
Here are the only confusion factors for me:
-
The statement “Synthetic oils are incompatible with 100LL fuel and must not be used.” and the fact that Penn-Grade 1 is a “Synthetic Blend”.
-
The statement “Do not use diesel engine oils (Rotella) and do not use oil additives.” seems to be in direct conflict with what others have had success with. Ref https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvN83Xb2xy8&t=231s. Go to about the 1 min. point of the video to get the relevant point. However, I’m running a VW, not a Corvair, so I’ll go with what the VW experts say.
The common thread is the Zinc and Phosphorus content of all the recommended oils and all recommended oils are not fully synthetic.
What am I missing?
Thanks,
Wes
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:13 am
by lutorm
WesRagle wrote:1) The statement “Synthetic oils are incompatible with 100LL fuel and must not be used.” and the fact that Penn-Grade 1 is a “Synthetic Blend”.
I believe the idea is that you need at least some mineral oil content, since that’s what can suspend the lead products. It’s not so much that “synthetic is incompatible” in the sense that any synthetic is bad, it just can’t be all synthetic. Since synthetics have superior lubrication characteristics I guess it’s advantageous to have some of it, even when using 100LL.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:31 am
by Rynoth
lutorm wrote:
WesRagle wrote:1) The statement “Synthetic oils are incompatible with 100LL fuel and must not be used.” and the fact that Penn-Grade 1 is a “Synthetic Blend”.
I believe the idea is that you need at least some mineral oil content, since that’s what can suspend the lead products. It’s not so much that “synthetic is incompatible” in the sense that any synthetic is bad, it just can’t be all synthetic. Since synthetics have superior lubrication characteristics I guess it’s advantageous to have some of it, even when using 100LL.
This is correct, there are a few places in the manual where it may say “synthetic not approved” where it would be clearer if it said what it meant, “FULLY synthetic not approved.”
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:15 am
by WesRagle
Rynoth wrote:
lutorm wrote:
WesRagle wrote:1) The statement “Synthetic oils are incompatible with 100LL fuel and must not be used.” and the fact that Penn-Grade 1 is a “Synthetic Blend”.
I believe the idea is that you need at least some mineral oil content, since that’s what can suspend the lead products. It’s not so much that “synthetic is incompatible” in the sense that any synthetic is bad, it just can’t be all synthetic. Since synthetics have superior lubrication characteristics I guess it’s advantageous to have some of it, even when using 100LL.
This is correct, there are a few places in the manual where it may say “synthetic not approved” where it would be clearer if it said what it meant, “FULLY synthetic not approved.”
I agree. I just noted it as a confusion factor because the word “incompatible” suggests that something bad will happen if synthetic oil is present. Just a poor choice of words.
Me, I’ve already made my choice.
Hope to crank the engine this fall. Moving along at a glacial pace.
Wes
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:14 pm
by WesRagle
Hi Guys,
So, my engine now has over 20 hours on it. I’m about ready to say I’m past break in. I have been using PennGrade 1 semi-synthetic to cover any high oil temps I might encounter during early phase I. I’m about ready to switch to a full mineral oil.
So, is this the stuff I want?
One funny (in retrospect) story. I was having oil temp problems during the first few flights. So, I would be at the airport at morning civil twilight trying to get some flight time while it was just 80 Deg. That wasn’t good enough. The oil temperature would still get up to 230 Deg. F. On one flight I was landing due to high oil temp. While on final a set of head lights appeared in the wind screen. It was the airport manager making his morning check for “stuff” on the runway. By the time I balked that landing and got it on the ground my oil temp was 250 Deg. So, maybe the semi-synthetic helped a bit. I dumped the oil and took on a fresh load.
Thanks for Your Time,
Wes
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:55 pm
by tx_swordguy
You have already been given advice seeing as this is an old thread. You chose to go the semi synthetic route. Whether or not the cylinders glazed or not is irrelevant at this point because you have 20 hrs on the engine. STRAIGHT aviation mineral oil is used for break in and at least first 50 hrs and even as high as the first 100 depending on who you talk to. It has been suggested you can start on a multi visc. oil such as 20w50 phillips XC and that is will still break in ok on that. DO NOT USE car oil in an aviation engine regardless of whether it was originally a car engine. They run at much different loads and temps and the oils react differently to what is going on in the engine. All that said your problem with temps is NOT the oil. It is getting the oil cool enough. One option is install an oil cooler. If you have one great. Now get that thing into an air supply that will allow enough movement to draw air through it. Generally the oil cooler should have baffling to force air up to the face of the cooler and not allow it to run over/around the side of it. Next part is to make a cowling exit opening big enough to allow the air that is built up infront of the cooler to go through and out the cowl. Usually getting air to the front of the cooler( if it is placed right) is not difficult. designing the exit area to force the air to draw through the cooler is the hard part. If no/not enough exit is in place the air just compresses on the face of the cooler without actually going through it. essentially it becomes a wall. If this has already been stated before in the old thread than I appologize
Mark
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:55 pm
by mike.smith
chuckster wrote:As per Kerry just the other day. Aero vee non turbo. Valvoline vr-1 20w-50 non synthetic
For my AeroVee, the VR-1 is what I’ve used for 6 years and 500 hours, with no issues. I run 100LL exclusively, and use TCP fuel additive to scavenge the lead.
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:58 pm
by WesRagle
Hi Mark,
Are you going to be this way the rest of the day 
I was advised by the engine builder to use 20w50 racing oil (with high zinc content) for break in and after break in. I had two choices, straight or semi synthetic. I do have a custom oil cooling system that I suspected might need work so I chose semi synthetic for break in thinking it would provide more protection in the event that I had high oil temps. I simply gave an example of one instance where it might have helped. I’m now ready to go straight instead of semi synthetic for what I assume would better compatibility with 100LL. I just don’t want to hit the Buy Now button and find out I got the wrong stuff.
I live in Texas, of course I have an oil cooler. Don’t be silly. I have the oil temperature sorted now. Last time up my cruise oil temp was 180 and my hottest CHT was 317. Oil consumption is minimal. I assume the cylinders are fine.
As it turns out you’re just 2.9 miles out side my test area. I was thinking I might fly up there and meet you and the Onex guy with the RV4 canopy (sorry I forgot his name).
All the Best,
Wes
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:59 pm
by WesRagle
Hi Mike,
mike.smith wrote:
chuckster wrote:As per Kerry just the other day. Aero vee non turbo. Valvoline vr-1 20w-50 non synthetic
For my AeroVee, the VR-1 is what I’ve used for 6 years and 500 hours, with no issues. I run 100LL exclusively, and use TCP fuel additive to scavenge the lead.
Thanks. I’m on it.
Wes
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:46 pm
by tx_swordguy
Wes I apologize for coming across as a jerk. Not meant that way and by all means if the actual engine manufacturer told you to use a certain oil by all means don’t listen to me. I guess I fell into the trap of some guys ask a question of the group and when they are not getting the answer they wanted they just disregard the advice given to them and go on their way. That is annoying to people trying to help. I am sorry that I assumed you were doing that. I am glad you got your temp sorted out. I guess I misunderstood your post. I thought you were getting temps in excess of 230. I have been told repeatedly by those smarter than I that the detergents in car oil do not play well with an engine loaded and run like an aviation engine and then sitting for days or weeks before being run hard again. If it is being run daily the problems evidently are less of an issue is my understanding. There is a fly in down in Ranger texas this weekend and James (onex ) and I will be there on Saturday. Not sure if it is in your test area or not or even the legalities of flying into something like that under phase 1. I fly a red sonex with 97 on the sides. If you are there look me up and I promise not to be a jerk.
Mark
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:23 am
by WesRagle
Hey Mark,
No worries. I thought maybe you were just having a bad day
I was having Oil Temp problems. I had to add a little scoop to help the NACA vent. That’s all it took to fix it. It may come off as things cool down and the engine breaks in.
My test area is a 65 nm radius around Mineral Wells. I’m hangared at Olney in the far NW quadrant of my test area. Ranger is in my test area but … Right now I’m feeling a little vulnerable. Wouldn’t want to take out an entire row of vintage aircraft.
What time are you guys going to be there. I might get a chance to drive in.
Thanks,
Wes
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:09 pm
by tx_swordguy
Hi Wes. I plan on being there in the 9ish range. The tv weather guys are saying wind 10-20 out of the south so im going to try and beat that. It might be nice on the way back though. My number is 940-390-5744 if you get over there give me a call and we can meet up. Or if you want to fly up the gville sometime let me know.
Mark
Ps that is a pretty slick install on the vent. I like it
Re: Correct Engine Oil for VW
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:59 pm
by WesRagle
Hi Mark,
Thanks. Will do. Regardless of when, I look forward to meeting y’all.
Wes